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This is so sad to watch all this happening. We had decades of growing closer together and then some power-hungry nutjobs undid all that again within just a few

This is so sad to watch all this happening. We had decades of growing closer together and then some power-hungry nutjobs undid all that again within just a few years.

toyg 5y ago
Just a few decades of mass-propaganda on the tabloid press, you mean.
- 123pie123 5y ago
  It's extremely depressing talking to people about Brexit, It's turned into a belief system and to question it is almost(maybe the same!!) like saying your religion is wrong No matter how logical I am in trying to discuss the pros and cons, the conversation will invarably go to the statement - you just don't know the real impact yet followed by a virtual fingers in the ear when discussing facts, then followed by them saying lets change the subject. It's somehow been internalised to a degree that peoples existance depends on it working and them being right
  - toyg 5y ago
    > to a degree that peoples existance depends on it That's because for many, it actually does. If "project fear" turns out to be right, a lot of people will get poor - and more importantly, they will have to admit that they were wrong, which is absolutely unconceivable and shameful in the pub-culture shouting match that political debate has turned into after the '80s.
    - 123pie123 5y ago
      >they will have to admit that they were wrong when it does turn out crap (it's already started) I doubt people will say they're wrong. I recon they'll either stay quiet and just convinently forgot they voted to leave or argue they were right based on the <insert any made up arguement here> and the politicians were wrong and are to blame
- c048 5y ago
  And social media, don't forget that. Both are an acute cancer to society.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  Largely from one man. The same guy who used to write anti-EU columns for those papers is the same guy who's now Prime Minister. Man do I miss the days when he was just a bad joke. :(
vultour 5y ago
The funny thing is how a nutjob caused this and then immediately peaced out.
thehappypm 5y ago
51% of the country are power-hungry nutjobs?
- 123pie123 5y ago
  there was zero discussion on the pros and cons of staying/ leaving. lots of stupid statments with lots of emotions and lots of made up promises
  - thehappypm 5y ago
    "Zero discussion" seems like a stretch.
    - 123pie123 5y ago
      from my angle yes, zero, nothing not one proper conversation I tried many time to talk anyone about the logic, nothing after the vote the same. and I'm not really an emotional person at all, but I realised early on this was emotional subject. I just wanted to understand the facts and the reasons
      - thehappypm 5y ago
        Ok
- Tsiklon 5y ago
  This has the potential to go off the rails very quickly. 51% of the electorate who voted 5 years ago said they wished to leave the EU. This is absolutely true. The nuance here is that of that 51%, their reasons for voting to leave and their intended/desired future arrangement with the EU was not uniform. Some wished to maintain close ties (common market, freedom of movement, regulatory alignment etc), others wanted a clean break from everything, and a spectrum of opinion in between the two Brexit was many things to many different people. It’s this ambiguity and room for manoeuvre in defining what exactly “Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union” is, which has been seized upon by the power-hungry, who are a minority of all Brexiteers, but a sizeable portion of the Eurosceptic MPs of the Conservative party at the time. It appears obvious that Cameron intended the referendum to silence the eurosceptic wing of the Conservative party once and for all, as the Alternative Vote referendum did to reform of “first past the post” in the previous administration. This backfired on him spectacularly. And he resigned immediately once the gambit failed.
JamesDeepDown 5y ago
It's easy and simplistic to blame individual "nutjobs" or "the media" for brexit happening. As if the huge numbers of brexit-voters were simple folk who got bamboozled. Far more difficult to accept that working-class people did actually know what they were voting for?
- maxehmookau 5y ago
  Find me a person (working class or otherwise) who can tell me exactly what they voted for. We were all asked the same question: "Leave or remain". Remain meant keeping things as they were. That was clear. Leave meant anything on an enormous spectrum of potential outcomes.

This is so sad to watch all this happening. We had decades of growing closer together and then some power-hungry nutjobs undid all that again within just a few years.

toyg 5y ago

Just a few decades of mass-propaganda on the tabloid press, you mean.

123pie123 5y ago
It's extremely depressing talking to people about Brexit, It's turned into a belief system and to question it is almost(maybe the same!!) like saying your religion is wrong No matter how logical I am in trying to discuss the pros and cons, the conversation will invarably go to the statement - you just don't know the real impact yet followed by a virtual fingers in the ear when discussing facts, then followed by them saying lets change the subject. It's somehow been internalised to a degree that peoples existance depends on it working and them being right
- toyg 5y ago
  > to a degree that peoples existance depends on it That's because for many, it actually does. If "project fear" turns out to be right, a lot of people will get poor - and more importantly, they will have to admit that they were wrong, which is absolutely unconceivable and shameful in the pub-culture shouting match that political debate has turned into after the '80s.
  - 123pie123 5y ago
    >they will have to admit that they were wrong when it does turn out crap (it's already started) I doubt people will say they're wrong. I recon they'll either stay quiet and just convinently forgot they voted to leave or argue they were right based on the <insert any made up arguement here> and the politicians were wrong and are to blame
c048 5y ago
And social media, don't forget that. Both are an acute cancer to society.
hnlmorg 5y ago
Largely from one man. The same guy who used to write anti-EU columns for those papers is the same guy who's now Prime Minister. Man do I miss the days when he was just a bad joke. :(

vultour 5y ago

The funny thing is how a nutjob caused this and then immediately peaced out.

thehappypm 5y ago

51% of the country are power-hungry nutjobs?

123pie123 5y ago
there was zero discussion on the pros and cons of staying/ leaving. lots of stupid statments with lots of emotions and lots of made up promises
- thehappypm 5y ago
  "Zero discussion" seems like a stretch.
  - 123pie123 5y ago
    from my angle yes, zero, nothing not one proper conversation I tried many time to talk anyone about the logic, nothing after the vote the same. and I'm not really an emotional person at all, but I realised early on this was emotional subject. I just wanted to understand the facts and the reasons
    - thehappypm 5y ago
      Ok
Tsiklon 5y ago
This has the potential to go off the rails very quickly. 51% of the electorate who voted 5 years ago said they wished to leave the EU. This is absolutely true. The nuance here is that of that 51%, their reasons for voting to leave and their intended/desired future arrangement with the EU was not uniform. Some wished to maintain close ties (common market, freedom of movement, regulatory alignment etc), others wanted a clean break from everything, and a spectrum of opinion in between the two Brexit was many things to many different people. It’s this ambiguity and room for manoeuvre in defining what exactly “Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union” is, which has been seized upon by the power-hungry, who are a minority of all Brexiteers, but a sizeable portion of the Eurosceptic MPs of the Conservative party at the time. It appears obvious that Cameron intended the referendum to silence the eurosceptic wing of the Conservative party once and for all, as the Alternative Vote referendum did to reform of “first past the post” in the previous administration. This backfired on him spectacularly. And he resigned immediately once the gambit failed.

JamesDeepDown 5y ago

It's easy and simplistic to blame individual "nutjobs" or "the media" for brexit happening. As if the huge numbers of brexit-voters were simple folk who got bamboozled. Far more difficult to accept that working-class people did actually know what they were voting for?

maxehmookau 5y ago
Find me a person (working class or otherwise) who can tell me exactly what they voted for. We were all asked the same question: "Leave or remain". Remain meant keeping things as they were. That was clear. Leave meant anything on an enormous spectrum of potential outcomes.