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3. Business Incentive. It's very simple. If I'm the owner a plastic factory not only will I fight any product that can potentially replace the product I make,

3. Business Incentive. It's very simple. If I'm the owner a plastic factory not only will I fight any product that can potentially replace the product I make, but I will delude myself and pay to delude others into thinking the replacement product is inferior. No system is perfect and one of the negative side effects of capitalism is that short term individual interests often overpower long term collective interests.

robertlagrant 5y ago
I think they generally only do this in the short term, though.
- shadowlight 5y ago
  Short term is relative though. Is it short term relative to a couple years, a human lifetime, or the life times of generations? Two good examples of industries that historically only looked at short term interests: Oil and Tobacco. These companies fought and tried to change reality as we know it. They tried to spin a narrative that said global warming was fake or that cigarettes are healthy. The long term effects of global warming will ultimately harm everyone including the companies that make these lies. However, the detrimental short term effects arguably happen after the span of one or two human lifetimes, that's why it's hard for companies to see beyond this horizon. What about nuclear power? The fallout from the waste spans generations. The price of building these plants now could be paid by our distant progeny.
  - robertlagrant 5y ago
    Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost. Nuclear waste doesn't have fallout. Coal today is causing more radiation deaths than nuclear.
    - shadowlight 5y ago
      > Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost. They lied and deliberately used biased scientific research. These execs even swore on oath IN a congressional hearing before congress that tobacco was healthy even when internal documents leaked by a whistleblower told the exact opposite. This is the new way to oppress people. Lies, deception, omission and obfuscation. It's insidious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJBaBJawnSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJBaBJawnSY >Nuclear waste doesn't have fallout. Coal today is causing more radiation deaths than nuclear. I should correct myself, Radiation. Not Fallout. Either way this is the current mantra followed by a minority of educated people who harp this endlessly. You're not wrong and you're more informed than most but you're not looking at the full picture. There's no numbers on what this waste will do 24,000 from now. There's literally no data and no science on building structures that can encase that stuff for that long or even longer. Nobody knows. So in essence you don't know what will happen in the future. You have no clue yet you support it blindly, why? That is my point. You don't know and you don't give a shit. The long term effects are irrelevant to you. 24,000 years in the future is not something anyone gives a shit about. Just like how the long term effects of making plastic are irrelevant to the owner of the plastic factory. Additionally I would like to know your background. Sorry for getting personal, but background influences bias. You seem to be a guy who's super rich and an owner or shareholder of big business.
      - powerslacker 5y ago
        Hi, shadowlight! Your comment here is a bit out of place. HN is a nice place where folks come for interesting news and conversation. In order to keep this place civil there are guidelines in place, which you can find at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and review at your leisure. I've included some here for your reference: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.

robertlagrant 5y ago

I think they generally only do this in the short term, though.

shadowlight 5y ago
Short term is relative though. Is it short term relative to a couple years, a human lifetime, or the life times of generations? Two good examples of industries that historically only looked at short term interests: Oil and Tobacco. These companies fought and tried to change reality as we know it. They tried to spin a narrative that said global warming was fake or that cigarettes are healthy. The long term effects of global warming will ultimately harm everyone including the companies that make these lies. However, the detrimental short term effects arguably happen after the span of one or two human lifetimes, that's why it's hard for companies to see beyond this horizon. What about nuclear power? The fallout from the waste spans generations. The price of building these plants now could be paid by our distant progeny.
- robertlagrant 5y ago
  Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost. Nuclear waste doesn't have fallout. Coal today is causing more radiation deaths than nuclear.
  - shadowlight 5y ago
    > Yes they fought through the means of consumer choice, the least oppressive means in history. And they lost. They lied and deliberately used biased scientific research. These execs even swore on oath IN a congressional hearing before congress that tobacco was healthy even when internal documents leaked by a whistleblower told the exact opposite. This is the new way to oppress people. Lies, deception, omission and obfuscation. It's insidious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJBaBJawnSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJBaBJawnSY >Nuclear waste doesn't have fallout. Coal today is causing more radiation deaths than nuclear. I should correct myself, Radiation. Not Fallout. Either way this is the current mantra followed by a minority of educated people who harp this endlessly. You're not wrong and you're more informed than most but you're not looking at the full picture. There's no numbers on what this waste will do 24,000 from now. There's literally no data and no science on building structures that can encase that stuff for that long or even longer. Nobody knows. So in essence you don't know what will happen in the future. You have no clue yet you support it blindly, why? That is my point. You don't know and you don't give a shit. The long term effects are irrelevant to you. 24,000 years in the future is not something anyone gives a shit about. Just like how the long term effects of making plastic are irrelevant to the owner of the plastic factory. Additionally I would like to know your background. Sorry for getting personal, but background influences bias. You seem to be a guy who's super rich and an owner or shareholder of big business.
    - powerslacker 5y ago
      Hi, shadowlight! Your comment here is a bit out of place. HN is a nice place where folks come for interesting news and conversation. In order to keep this place civil there are guidelines in place, which you can find at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and review at your leisure. I've included some here for your reference: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.