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That is a very USA view of the work place. The part that I most appreciate from casual chats in the office is the non-productive part. To hear people laugh, to

That is a very USA view of the work place. The part that I most appreciate from casual chats in the office is the non-productive part. To hear people laugh, to chat about vacations, to humanize your colleagues has a lot of value. That creates an environment were I want to work with them, and not only because I am paid to do so. I have seen the devastating power of fights between departments and teams when the human side is broken. When we are not all humans trying our best, but we are employees with local loyalties it is easy to see others as an enemy instead of an ally. Humans are great collaborators, but we need to have human contact. Screens, microphones, cameras and delays in the hundreds of milliseconds for each gesture are an impediment and require extra mental effort. But, I guess that an important difference between USA and Europe is the stress of commuting. European cities are more compact and with way better public transport, so, maybe in the USA is justified the extra effort just to not have to spend hours in a car to get to the office. That also has its toll in health and all that stress hampers collaboration. I just hope that remote work is not just a hack to not fix the real problem, that it takes too long to get to the office, that more investment is needed in public transportation. I am also curious on how this works in other places. China has great public transport, and was not affected by the pandemic in the same way that the West. Are they going to stay in the office? Or remote work advantages that I cannot foresee and China would also follow that path? South America? Africa? Is this a new divide between the North and South hemispheres? These are interesting times.

Miiko 5y ago
> But, I guess that an important difference between USA and Europe is the stress of commuting. European cities are more compact and with way better public transport, so, maybe in the USA is justified the extra effort just to not have to spend hours in a car to get to the office. Not everybody hates driving, for some - like myself - public transportation is much more stressful. In any case, if measured by time taken, USA has much shorted commute than Europe, definitely not "hours in a car": "The average commuting time in most European countries is 38 minutes, as opposed to 25 minutes in the United States." https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter8/urban-transport-challenges/average-commuting-time/ https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter8/urban-trans...
- freyr 5y ago
  For those of us who live and work in the Bay Area, “hours in a car” can be a reality.
  - Miiko 5y ago
    Surely it can - we had a guy in our office (which was in Daly City) commuting from Sacramento area, - but I don't think it is very common... at least not in technical companies, which usually allow / tolerate flexible hours. Off-peak traffic in SFBA is not that bad.
- ElViajero 5y ago
  That is very interesting data. I always assumed that USA commutes are longer. It would be interesting to get a breakdown by means of transport. My commute is almost 25 minutes: 10 minutes by subway and 15 minutes walking. I could make it faster, but that will require to use two buses and the subway. I prefer to just walk, sometimes I even walk all the way up home. But, it could be reasonable that taking public transport people has to walks more and it takes longer to get to places. For car oriented cities you can just park at your office parking lot and you are done. update: Also Netherlands is its own category. "Cycling is a common mode of transport in the Netherlands, with 36% of Dutch people listing the bicycle as their most frequent way of getting around on a typical day"
CodeGlitch 5y ago
> Humans are great collaborators, but we need to have human contact. Screens, microphones, cameras and delays in the hundreds of milliseconds for each gesture are an impediment and require extra mental effort. Is this true though? I look at the massive Opensource projects that have been successfully running for decades (Linux, Python, etc) and wonder if success is down to human contact? Sure it's great to have conferences, meet-and-greets, etc... but for the day-to-day running of development I'm not so sure we need to be sat next to each other.

Miiko 5y ago

> But, I guess that an important difference between USA and Europe is the stress of commuting. European cities are more compact and with way better public transport, so, maybe in the USA is justified the extra effort just to not have to spend hours in a car to get to the office. Not everybody hates driving, for some - like myself - public transportation is much more stressful. In any case, if measured by time taken, USA has much shorted commute than Europe, definitely not "hours in a car": "The average commuting time in most European countries is 38 minutes, as opposed to 25 minutes in the United States." https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter8/urban-transport-challenges/average-commuting-time/ https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter8/urban-trans...

freyr 5y ago
For those of us who live and work in the Bay Area, “hours in a car” can be a reality.
- Miiko 5y ago
  Surely it can - we had a guy in our office (which was in Daly City) commuting from Sacramento area, - but I don't think it is very common... at least not in technical companies, which usually allow / tolerate flexible hours. Off-peak traffic in SFBA is not that bad.
ElViajero 5y ago
That is very interesting data. I always assumed that USA commutes are longer. It would be interesting to get a breakdown by means of transport. My commute is almost 25 minutes: 10 minutes by subway and 15 minutes walking. I could make it faster, but that will require to use two buses and the subway. I prefer to just walk, sometimes I even walk all the way up home. But, it could be reasonable that taking public transport people has to walks more and it takes longer to get to places. For car oriented cities you can just park at your office parking lot and you are done. update: Also Netherlands is its own category. "Cycling is a common mode of transport in the Netherlands, with 36% of Dutch people listing the bicycle as their most frequent way of getting around on a typical day"

CodeGlitch 5y ago

> Humans are great collaborators, but we need to have human contact. Screens, microphones, cameras and delays in the hundreds of milliseconds for each gesture are an impediment and require extra mental effort. Is this true though? I look at the massive Opensource projects that have been successfully running for decades (Linux, Python, etc) and wonder if success is down to human contact? Sure it's great to have conferences, meet-and-greets, etc... but for the day-to-day running of development I'm not so sure we need to be sat next to each other.