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Why do you think "war with China" is a potential outcome of determining it was a lab leak? This is not a strong argument. Regardless of all these wild pontifi

by tigen 5y ago

Why do you think "war with China" is a potential outcome of determining it was a lab leak? This is not a strong argument. Regardless of all these wild pontifications, those who have run interference on the truth need to suffer the reputational consequences.

wokwokwok 5y ago
Don’t be naive. Having a immediate target that is clearly to blame and already an “enemy” isn't going to just result in a ideological slap on the wrist. What consequences do you think there should be? Pay for the damage to the US economy? To the world? Apologise and it’s fine? What do think “holding them to account for what happened” actually means? This isn’t some scientific journal where you lose magical reputation points. There's already literally a response two comments down saying you would need to force change to the CCP. How do you imagine that's going to happen? Ask nicely? Sanctions? Well, that's worked just great so far. Let's see, oh I can think of another way of forcing change... what could it be?
- deleted 5y ago
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- Judgmentality 5y ago
  I'd much rather have China admit fault and explain how this won't happen in the future than the current situation. As it stands I assume they are hiding something. For all I know they're developing bioweapons they plan to use for military purposes. And if they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to apologize for, but as it stands nobody is allowed to investigate so I have little faith in this theory. I'm not pretending this isn't a political clusterfuck. But I'd rather deal with a political clusterfuck than a bioweapon clusterfuck. And if they aren't developing bioweapons then great! If they are developing bioweapons then that feels like something that's better to know sooner rather than later. And if there wasn't a lab leak then even better! Now the world knows that it really was just a bizarre phenomenon. If there was a lab leak then they simply made a mistake, they can rectify that mistake moving forward, and the world moves on. If the world doesn't move on - what are they going to do? You think the US (or any country) will go to war (as in send in troops in huge numbers with the understanding most of them will likely die) with China because of an accidental lab leak? I don't. It seems to me the dumbest possible thing to do is not investigate. I don't believe advocating for ignorance is ever a viable strategy.
- hellotomyrars 5y ago
  Russia literally shot down a civilian airliner, annexed part of the Ukraine, and continues to assassinate/attempt to assassinate former intelligence operatives that turned on them decades ago on foreign soil. We still haven’t gone to war with them, and we’re in a better position to do that as well. Declaring war on China even if this was a lab leak, hell even if it was on purpose (Difficult to believe, but let’s go there) isn’t a workable or appropriate solution. Certainly not going to happen in the short term, blame it on globalism, but the global implications are bigger than ever and don’t make it practical.
- ctrlp 5y ago
  It's naive to assume that the US would enter into a hot war with China, or that war is the only way countries oppose one another. The most obvious way to 'punish' an uncooperative CCP would be through trade sanctions. If the Chinese government is responsible and the G7 had any interest in coordinating a response, this would put enormous pressure on the CCP, which is dependent on a rising standard of living for its citizenry. Other possible responses would include strengthening China's regional competitors (e.g., India). At a minimum, it could mean the cessation of global research collaboration.
deleted 5y ago
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by tigen 5y ago

wokwokwok 5y ago

Don’t be naive. Having a immediate target that is clearly to blame and already an “enemy” isn't going to just result in a ideological slap on the wrist. What consequences do you think there should be? Pay for the damage to the US economy? To the world? Apologise and it’s fine? What do think “holding them to account for what happened” actually means? This isn’t some scientific journal where you lose magical reputation points. There's already literally a response two comments down saying you would need to force change to the CCP. How do you imagine that's going to happen? Ask nicely? Sanctions? Well, that's worked just great so far. Let's see, oh I can think of another way of forcing change... what could it be?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Judgmentality 5y ago
I'd much rather have China admit fault and explain how this won't happen in the future than the current situation. As it stands I assume they are hiding something. For all I know they're developing bioweapons they plan to use for military purposes. And if they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to apologize for, but as it stands nobody is allowed to investigate so I have little faith in this theory. I'm not pretending this isn't a political clusterfuck. But I'd rather deal with a political clusterfuck than a bioweapon clusterfuck. And if they aren't developing bioweapons then great! If they are developing bioweapons then that feels like something that's better to know sooner rather than later. And if there wasn't a lab leak then even better! Now the world knows that it really was just a bizarre phenomenon. If there was a lab leak then they simply made a mistake, they can rectify that mistake moving forward, and the world moves on. If the world doesn't move on - what are they going to do? You think the US (or any country) will go to war (as in send in troops in huge numbers with the understanding most of them will likely die) with China because of an accidental lab leak? I don't. It seems to me the dumbest possible thing to do is not investigate. I don't believe advocating for ignorance is ever a viable strategy.
hellotomyrars 5y ago
Russia literally shot down a civilian airliner, annexed part of the Ukraine, and continues to assassinate/attempt to assassinate former intelligence operatives that turned on them decades ago on foreign soil. We still haven’t gone to war with them, and we’re in a better position to do that as well. Declaring war on China even if this was a lab leak, hell even if it was on purpose (Difficult to believe, but let’s go there) isn’t a workable or appropriate solution. Certainly not going to happen in the short term, blame it on globalism, but the global implications are bigger than ever and don’t make it practical.
ctrlp 5y ago
It's naive to assume that the US would enter into a hot war with China, or that war is the only way countries oppose one another. The most obvious way to 'punish' an uncooperative CCP would be through trade sanctions. If the Chinese government is responsible and the G7 had any interest in coordinating a response, this would put enormous pressure on the CCP, which is dependent on a rising standard of living for its citizenry. Other possible responses would include strengthening China's regional competitors (e.g., India). At a minimum, it could mean the cessation of global research collaboration.

deleted 5y ago

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