4 ms·

So if a restaurant worker in California happens to do a poor job of washing their hands and a diner gets sick, does that mean America is to blame? There should

So if a restaurant worker in California happens to do a poor job of washing their hands and a diner gets sick, does that mean America is to blame? There should absolutely be as deep as possible an investigation into the origins of the virus, but it needs to be dispassionate in all directions.

cscurmudgeon 5y ago
Yes. If the restaurant had a history of documented safety issues and the relevant regulatory government bodies didn't take action to rectify it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-dep... https://www.businessinsider.com/us-officials-raised-alarms-about-safety-issues-in-wuhan-lab-report-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/us-officials-raised-alarms-a... Btw, comparing a restaurant worker being sloppy and a supposedly BSL-4 lab functioning at the level of BSL-2 lab is not a good look. Also, China's govt. has much much more control over a govt. lab than US has over a restaurant in California. The analogy fails.
- 8note 5y ago
  The US has complete control over a restaurant in California. Its got a huge military and could nuke the place if it wanted to. Deciding not to is the same in both cases
  - cscurmudgeon 5y ago
    > The US has complete control over a restaurant in California No, it doesn't. > Its got a huge military and could nuke the place if it wanted to By this logic, the US govt. has control over every corner of earth. Also, was the US govt. running the place and ignoring safety warnings? Was the restaurant possible responsible for a global pandemic? The analogy is stupid and not worth discussing more. All I am getting from this is that people think a restaurant I n US has the same level of responsibility as the lab in Wuhan.
karaterobot 5y ago
Wikipedia: > The Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences is a research institute on virology administered by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS), which reports to the State Council of the People's Republic of China. It would be reasonable by most people's definitions to blame whoever has oversight over a virology lab that leaked a virus. In this (alleged) case, that's the Chinese government.
- 8note 5y ago
  The chinese government doesnt owe me anything though. Sure, it's bad that they killed a bunch of their citizens, but they do that all the time
- tigen 5y ago
  The US outsourced virus research to this lab. The US will share some blame, because gain-of-function research is stupid in the first place. Is this part of the misdirection? Both sides do not want to know. Or let's say powerful interests on both sides.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> a restaurant worker in California happens to do a poor job of washing their hands and a diner gets sick If that worker causes a global pandemic the U.S. government covers up, yes.
- victor106 5y ago
  Exactly this. The cover up by is the problem
handmodel 5y ago
There is a difference between a restaurant worker (or a wet market worker) who slipped up and a lab worker that slipped up because we want lab rules to be idiot proof such that one worker would not be able to infect others/themselves - even if they tried. The restaurant worker slipping up is bad luck if they happen to be first to contact a virus. The government that runs labs know there is 100% chance there are dangerous viruses there and have a responsibility to enforce the safeguards.
- 8note 5y ago
  I think that only applies within their borders. Once it's outside, sure, there's a duty to report, but other governments have a responsibility to their own populace to keep them healthy. The US, for instance, should have more than enough spies in China to know everything china knows anyways, and took the chinese line that the virus didn't exist, or wasn't a problem up until Joe Biden got elected
  - hpcjoe 5y ago
    The US spy networks in China have been "rolled up"[1]. They don't exist in a usable form (if the news is to be believed). As for the "until Joe Biden" bit, er ... no. Trump was kicked out in large part due to his incompetent handling of the virus in the US (he thought it was an orchestrated attack by his political opponents, given that they turned everything into such an attack). The virus was a problem long before Biden won. Not that he is more competently handling it (he isn't), but the news media can now largely let go of their Trump derangement to start focusing on important things again. So it shows up more. [1] https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/905779/CIA-China-Jerry-Chun-Shing-Lee-spy-FBI-arrest-US-informants-intelligence-network https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/905779/CIA-China-Jerry-...

cscurmudgeon 5y ago

Yes. If the restaurant had a history of documented safety issues and the relevant regulatory government bodies didn't take action to rectify it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-dep... https://www.businessinsider.com/us-officials-raised-alarms-about-safety-issues-in-wuhan-lab-report-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/us-officials-raised-alarms-a... Btw, comparing a restaurant worker being sloppy and a supposedly BSL-4 lab functioning at the level of BSL-2 lab is not a good look. Also, China's govt. has much much more control over a govt. lab than US has over a restaurant in California. The analogy fails.

8note 5y ago
The US has complete control over a restaurant in California. Its got a huge military and could nuke the place if it wanted to. Deciding not to is the same in both cases
- cscurmudgeon 5y ago
  > The US has complete control over a restaurant in California No, it doesn't. > Its got a huge military and could nuke the place if it wanted to By this logic, the US govt. has control over every corner of earth. Also, was the US govt. running the place and ignoring safety warnings? Was the restaurant possible responsible for a global pandemic? The analogy is stupid and not worth discussing more. All I am getting from this is that people think a restaurant I n US has the same level of responsibility as the lab in Wuhan.

karaterobot 5y ago

Wikipedia: > The Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences is a research institute on virology administered by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS), which reports to the State Council of the People's Republic of China. It would be reasonable by most people's definitions to blame whoever has oversight over a virology lab that leaked a virus. In this (alleged) case, that's the Chinese government.

8note 5y ago
The chinese government doesnt owe me anything though. Sure, it's bad that they killed a bunch of their citizens, but they do that all the time
tigen 5y ago
The US outsourced virus research to this lab. The US will share some blame, because gain-of-function research is stupid in the first place. Is this part of the misdirection? Both sides do not want to know. Or let's say powerful interests on both sides.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> a restaurant worker in California happens to do a poor job of washing their hands and a diner gets sick If that worker causes a global pandemic the U.S. government covers up, yes.

victor106 5y ago
Exactly this. The cover up by is the problem

handmodel 5y ago

There is a difference between a restaurant worker (or a wet market worker) who slipped up and a lab worker that slipped up because we want lab rules to be idiot proof such that one worker would not be able to infect others/themselves - even if they tried. The restaurant worker slipping up is bad luck if they happen to be first to contact a virus. The government that runs labs know there is 100% chance there are dangerous viruses there and have a responsibility to enforce the safeguards.

8note 5y ago
I think that only applies within their borders. Once it's outside, sure, there's a duty to report, but other governments have a responsibility to their own populace to keep them healthy. The US, for instance, should have more than enough spies in China to know everything china knows anyways, and took the chinese line that the virus didn't exist, or wasn't a problem up until Joe Biden got elected
- hpcjoe 5y ago
  The US spy networks in China have been "rolled up"[1]. They don't exist in a usable form (if the news is to be believed). As for the "until Joe Biden" bit, er ... no. Trump was kicked out in large part due to his incompetent handling of the virus in the US (he thought it was an orchestrated attack by his political opponents, given that they turned everything into such an attack). The virus was a problem long before Biden won. Not that he is more competently handling it (he isn't), but the news media can now largely let go of their Trump derangement to start focusing on important things again. So it shows up more. [1] https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/905779/CIA-China-Jerry-Chun-Shing-Lee-spy-FBI-arrest-US-informants-intelligence-network https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/905779/CIA-China-Jerry-...