5 ms·

There's just one thing about this article that makes me feel eerie. It sounds like a piece of propaganda. PG tries evoking an emotional response out of the read

There's just one thing about this article that makes me feel eerie. It sounds like a piece of propaganda. PG tries evoking an emotional response out of the reader, pulling some random unsupported facts out of nowhere, like a religious preacher who'll do anything to support his point of view. What doesn't help is that since he's an investor, he is directly profiting from people working for rates below market rates and making it big. Nothing wrong with that. But still. Eerie. " The root of the problem is that humans weren't meant to work in such large groups." WHOA! really? I mean, I don't disagree but this is a fairly huge statement. He should back it up or <every intelligent reader> will assume that he's holding them for idiots. "I was in Africa last year and saw a lot of animals in the wild that I'd only seen in zoos before. It was remarkable how different they seemed. Particularly lions. Lions in the wild seem about ten times more alive. They're like different animals. " Oh, no! I'm not an animal! And if I am, I'm certainly the WILD TIGER FROM THE JUNGLE rather than a zoo-domesticated kitten. I SHOULD QUIT RIGHT NOW. Again, very broad connection. Full-time employees are nothing like zoo animals. They can leave any time they want, for one. The question is -- did PG ever work at a big company like Microsoft/Google/etc? Hard to tell from the article. Perhaps PG's intense imagination caused him to believe certain things are true while in reality they're illusions. "It's the job equivalent of the pizza they had for lunch. " This smells. Smells bad. This would be a lot better and believable: I worked at <a huge company> and it sucked. I spent most of my time figuring out how to impress my boss and come to the office on time, and how to log my hours properly. When I quit because it got unbearable, I realized that my logging-hours-properly skills and and getting-to-the-office-on-time skills are unmarketable, and quite frankly, a bunch of bullshit.

moondistance 15y ago
Rates below market rates? I think most people would disagree. They aren't salaried but the equity often pays well.
- mannicken 15y ago
  Good question. http://ycombinator.com/apply.html http://ycombinator.com/apply.html tells us that three founders (common situation) will get $20, 000, or roughly $6,667 per person. For three months. That's around $2200/month for skilled work, and it's not even a full-time job: http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html " Instead of working at a low intensity for forty years, you work as hard as you possibly can for four. " That sounds like 12-14hr/day, including weekends etc. Now you can see how the rate drops a lot when you divide $2200 by, uhm, what, 70-80hrs a week? It's barely minimum wage. Of course, you can say 'well, but they're giving you most of the stock if you succeed'. Yeah, but that also means you'll have to pay YC back in hundreds of thousands of dollars if you succeed. (Say YC is getting 5% of your $4 mln startup). The equity is not guaranteed. YC does not guarantee you'll get huge. They'll just pat on your shoulder and give you some pocket cash in return for a part of your company. Which is not bad.
  - nitrogen 15y ago
    I'm not going to rehash the old arguments here, as this has been discussed to death. Suffice it to say that any investment is not a job, is not a paycheck, and can't be compared to an hourly wage. YC and other high-quality investors provide more than just capital, they provide advice and connections, because they want their capital to succeed.
  - byrneseyeview 15y ago
    The impression I get is that YC's investment is roughly analogous to a company paying your cab fare to get you to their office for an interview. Focusing on the one precisely measurable part of the transaction misses a whole lot.
gus_massa 15y ago
He worked at Yahoo! in 1998-1999. He told some of his experiences in http://www.paulgraham.com/yahoo.html http://www.paulgraham.com/yahoo.html .(The second part, after "Hackers", is the more relevant to this topic.)
dgallagher 15y ago
I've always felt that PG uses his essays to flesh out ideas, thinking out loud. By putting it out there, others' can question things and draw their own conclusions (plus they provide a feedback loop). It's like overhearing a really intelligent person talking at a bar; you don't have to agree with everything they say, and they might be wrong, but it does get you thinking... His usage of metaphors paints a more vivid picture of the point he's trying to get across. If you read enough of his essays, you begin to adhere to this tone. Interpreting the metaphors literally would be the equivalent of doing the same towards sarcasm. But like a sarcastic person you just met, it can take some time to figure them out and "really" understand what they're saying. PG did work for Yahoo after they acquired ViaWeb in the late 90's. He doesn't mention this in most essays, so it's understandable to question that here.
- mannicken 15y ago
  I have to admit I wanted to spice things a bit, playing devil's advocate on purpose. Make the discussion more interesting by challenging status quo and see if it holds up.
  - dgallagher 15y ago
    Ah ha. Fun fun! :)

moondistance 15y ago

Rates below market rates? I think most people would disagree. They aren't salaried but the equity often pays well.

mannicken 15y ago
Good question. http://ycombinator.com/apply.html http://ycombinator.com/apply.html tells us that three founders (common situation) will get $20, 000, or roughly $6,667 per person. For three months. That's around $2200/month for skilled work, and it's not even a full-time job: http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html " Instead of working at a low intensity for forty years, you work as hard as you possibly can for four. " That sounds like 12-14hr/day, including weekends etc. Now you can see how the rate drops a lot when you divide $2200 by, uhm, what, 70-80hrs a week? It's barely minimum wage. Of course, you can say 'well, but they're giving you most of the stock if you succeed'. Yeah, but that also means you'll have to pay YC back in hundreds of thousands of dollars if you succeed. (Say YC is getting 5% of your $4 mln startup). The equity is not guaranteed. YC does not guarantee you'll get huge. They'll just pat on your shoulder and give you some pocket cash in return for a part of your company. Which is not bad.
- nitrogen 15y ago
  I'm not going to rehash the old arguments here, as this has been discussed to death. Suffice it to say that any investment is not a job, is not a paycheck, and can't be compared to an hourly wage. YC and other high-quality investors provide more than just capital, they provide advice and connections, because they want their capital to succeed.
- byrneseyeview 15y ago
  The impression I get is that YC's investment is roughly analogous to a company paying your cab fare to get you to their office for an interview. Focusing on the one precisely measurable part of the transaction misses a whole lot.

gus_massa 15y ago

He worked at Yahoo! in 1998-1999. He told some of his experiences in http://www.paulgraham.com/yahoo.html http://www.paulgraham.com/yahoo.html .(The second part, after "Hackers", is the more relevant to this topic.)

dgallagher 15y ago

I've always felt that PG uses his essays to flesh out ideas, thinking out loud. By putting it out there, others' can question things and draw their own conclusions (plus they provide a feedback loop). It's like overhearing a really intelligent person talking at a bar; you don't have to agree with everything they say, and they might be wrong, but it does get you thinking... His usage of metaphors paints a more vivid picture of the point he's trying to get across. If you read enough of his essays, you begin to adhere to this tone. Interpreting the metaphors literally would be the equivalent of doing the same towards sarcasm. But like a sarcastic person you just met, it can take some time to figure them out and "really" understand what they're saying. PG did work for Yahoo after they acquired ViaWeb in the late 90's. He doesn't mention this in most essays, so it's understandable to question that here.

mannicken 15y ago
I have to admit I wanted to spice things a bit, playing devil's advocate on purpose. Make the discussion more interesting by challenging status quo and see if it holds up.
- dgallagher 15y ago
  Ah ha. Fun fun! :)