6 ms·

Selective enforcement is bad. The fact that the law says that you could go to prison for one year for not filing taxes on time, but that it's rarely enforced me

by gpt5 5y ago

Selective enforcement is bad. The fact that the law says that you could go to prison for one year for not filing taxes on time, but that it's rarely enforced means that they should fix the law. Using it only on "bad guys" is a recipe for the government punishing people that disagrees with them.

uDontKnowMe 5y ago
>Using it only on "bad guys" is a recipe for the government punishing people that disagrees with them. Indeed that's exactly how it is being used if it's true that they throw the book at public figures for making political statements like Wesley Snipes.
- rafale 5y ago
  Don't you also go to jail if you can't pay them?
  - justanother 5y ago
    Maybe possible? But generally in that case when there was no fraud, you just get a bankruptcy-resistant lien that follows you to your grave, and whatever enforcement actions accompany liens. Generally again, absent fraud, they'll work out a high-interest installment plan.
XorNot 5y ago
Or you know...you could pay your taxes and stop stealing from the rest of us.
- marcan_42 5y ago
  To be fair, the dude doesn't live in the US. There are only two countries in the world that tax citizens overseas, and the US is one of them. I'm certainly not excusing his actions (and I'm sure he dodged taxes in many ways), but I have to say that as a Spanish citizen having lived in the US, Ireland, and now Japan, the US tax code is batshit insane.
  - XorNot 5y ago
    Sure, but he also refused to pay his taxes while being a US citizen and on money he earned in the US. And did so not from a place of disputing the validity of the tax bill, but simply refusing to pay the legally issued tax bill because he didn't want to. If US citizenship has a whole lot of advantages that mean you want to keep it, then the price is perfectly clear up front: you are bound to the US tax code.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > To be fair, the dude doesn't live in the US. There are only two countries in the world that tax citizens overseas, and the US is one of them. The tax evasion for which he was indicted covered 2014 through 2018; while there are gaps in the information I can find quickly about his residency, in 2015 he apparently resided in Tennessee (and in 2013 in Oregon). So even if we were to accept that taxation of nonresident citizens was fundamentally illegitimate, that wouldn't invalidate all (possibly not any, again, I can't find any nob-US residency information in the covered period, only once he announced he was on the run from the tax investigation in 2019, and some before 2013.) And even if all the tax allegations were grounded in illegitimate taxation, there's also the securities fraud charges.
- reedjosh 5y ago
  I never gave consent. Just because I was born here I have to give my earnings to a system governed by representatives chosen through a binary (red or blue) funnel? How can topics as complex as transgender rights, or abortion be all boiled into a single digit of information. And then I'm stealing if I don't consent to a system I by all statistical means have no control over!?
  - jackson1442 5y ago
    If you don't want to pay taxes, you can live off the grid. It's really rather simple if you think about it- if you're off the grid you're using none (or very very few) government resources like roads, utilities, banking networks, etc. With that, you're also not making any money meaning there's nothing to tax. You can also move.
    - Sacho 5y ago
      No, you can't just move - the US collects taxes from citizens even if they live and work outside of its borders. You could renounce your citizenship, perhaps, I don't really know if/how that works.
      - XorNot 5y ago
        If you feel so compelled to remain a US citizen that you don't want to renounce your citizenship, then again, you are choosing to pay the costs expected of being a US citizen.
        unishark 5y ago
        And what if no other country wants to accept you? Perhaps you have leprosy or advocate crazy political views or something. When someone immigrates illegally as a child we don't dare kick them out because that would be evil and cruel, though their country of origin would accept them back. But if you're just born here, with even fewer options, the logic gets flipped on its head and you're supposed to accept the social contract under total duress. As for McAfee, I would guess he did explore his legal options and they were probably no easier to swallow than the path he took. E.g. personal bankruptcy if he could even afford the taxes before he would be allowed to renounce.
- greenforer 5y ago
  You must have defined "stealing" interestingly
- kiney 5y ago
  trying not to get robbed by the government is now stealing?
gwbas1c 5y ago
The tax code is too confusing and subjective to send everyone who makes a mistake to prison. Jail is for people who actively dodge taxes, not someone who submitted their taxes a few days late.
- paledot 5y ago
  That also sounds like a problem.
amanaplanacanal 5y ago
I believe selective enforcement is a core part of policing in the US. No police agency has enough resources to go after everybody who breaks the law, so they make examples of high profile defendants to deter others.
- hajile 5y ago
  One of two things is true. Either they believe everyone should be doing 30 years (preposterous) or they know they are committing a grave injustice against someone. There is no reasonable interpretation of selective enforcement.
  - throw123123123 5y ago
    Thats not how the law works. It's not code, its run by people for people.
    - takenpilot 5y ago
      I've heard this from multiple people explaining stuff to me -- they were all Americans.
      - ByteJockey 5y ago
        Where are you from? If it's from continental Europe, I wonder if that's the difference. We get our laws from English Common Law instead of civil law (except Louisiana). Can we get a brit in here to see what their conception of the law is?
        spiralx 5y ago
        How courts interpret legislation and precedent differs a lot between common and civil law jurisdictions, but that's got nothing to do with how policing operates. Police everywhere can choose not to take action unless you're talking about a zero-tolerance society with Stasi-like levels of monitoring. "Selecting policing" is just "discretion", that particular phrase is possibly US-centric but the concept itself isn't.
unishark 5y ago
I don't think its selective enforcement so much as different crimes that can appear superficially to fit the same facts. Filing late because you made a mistake will cost you interest plus possibly a penalty relating to the amount. Tax evasion is a crime which can lead to jail time. The system will decide which one fits better based on your behavior, including how cooperative you are when they investigate it. Just like if you hit someone in the head and they die. Maybe you will get charged with murder or maybe they will believe it is an accident. There's really no way to remove these human factors from the justice system.

by gpt5 5y ago

uDontKnowMe 5y ago

>Using it only on "bad guys" is a recipe for the government punishing people that disagrees with them. Indeed that's exactly how it is being used if it's true that they throw the book at public figures for making political statements like Wesley Snipes.

rafale 5y ago
Don't you also go to jail if you can't pay them?
- justanother 5y ago
  Maybe possible? But generally in that case when there was no fraud, you just get a bankruptcy-resistant lien that follows you to your grave, and whatever enforcement actions accompany liens. Generally again, absent fraud, they'll work out a high-interest installment plan.

XorNot 5y ago

Or you know...you could pay your taxes and stop stealing from the rest of us.

marcan_42 5y ago
To be fair, the dude doesn't live in the US. There are only two countries in the world that tax citizens overseas, and the US is one of them. I'm certainly not excusing his actions (and I'm sure he dodged taxes in many ways), but I have to say that as a Spanish citizen having lived in the US, Ireland, and now Japan, the US tax code is batshit insane.
- XorNot 5y ago
  Sure, but he also refused to pay his taxes while being a US citizen and on money he earned in the US. And did so not from a place of disputing the validity of the tax bill, but simply refusing to pay the legally issued tax bill because he didn't want to. If US citizenship has a whole lot of advantages that mean you want to keep it, then the price is perfectly clear up front: you are bound to the US tax code.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > To be fair, the dude doesn't live in the US. There are only two countries in the world that tax citizens overseas, and the US is one of them. The tax evasion for which he was indicted covered 2014 through 2018; while there are gaps in the information I can find quickly about his residency, in 2015 he apparently resided in Tennessee (and in 2013 in Oregon). So even if we were to accept that taxation of nonresident citizens was fundamentally illegitimate, that wouldn't invalidate all (possibly not any, again, I can't find any nob-US residency information in the covered period, only once he announced he was on the run from the tax investigation in 2019, and some before 2013.) And even if all the tax allegations were grounded in illegitimate taxation, there's also the securities fraud charges.
reedjosh 5y ago
I never gave consent. Just because I was born here I have to give my earnings to a system governed by representatives chosen through a binary (red or blue) funnel? How can topics as complex as transgender rights, or abortion be all boiled into a single digit of information. And then I'm stealing if I don't consent to a system I by all statistical means have no control over!?
- jackson1442 5y ago
  If you don't want to pay taxes, you can live off the grid. It's really rather simple if you think about it- if you're off the grid you're using none (or very very few) government resources like roads, utilities, banking networks, etc. With that, you're also not making any money meaning there's nothing to tax. You can also move.
  - Sacho 5y ago
    No, you can't just move - the US collects taxes from citizens even if they live and work outside of its borders. You could renounce your citizenship, perhaps, I don't really know if/how that works.
    - XorNot 5y ago
      If you feel so compelled to remain a US citizen that you don't want to renounce your citizenship, then again, you are choosing to pay the costs expected of being a US citizen.
      - unishark 5y ago
        And what if no other country wants to accept you? Perhaps you have leprosy or advocate crazy political views or something. When someone immigrates illegally as a child we don't dare kick them out because that would be evil and cruel, though their country of origin would accept them back. But if you're just born here, with even fewer options, the logic gets flipped on its head and you're supposed to accept the social contract under total duress. As for McAfee, I would guess he did explore his legal options and they were probably no easier to swallow than the path he took. E.g. personal bankruptcy if he could even afford the taxes before he would be allowed to renounce.
greenforer 5y ago
You must have defined "stealing" interestingly
kiney 5y ago
trying not to get robbed by the government is now stealing?

gwbas1c 5y ago

The tax code is too confusing and subjective to send everyone who makes a mistake to prison. Jail is for people who actively dodge taxes, not someone who submitted their taxes a few days late.

paledot 5y ago
That also sounds like a problem.

amanaplanacanal 5y ago

I believe selective enforcement is a core part of policing in the US. No police agency has enough resources to go after everybody who breaks the law, so they make examples of high profile defendants to deter others.

hajile 5y ago
One of two things is true. Either they believe everyone should be doing 30 years (preposterous) or they know they are committing a grave injustice against someone. There is no reasonable interpretation of selective enforcement.
- throw123123123 5y ago
  Thats not how the law works. It's not code, its run by people for people.
  - takenpilot 5y ago
    I've heard this from multiple people explaining stuff to me -- they were all Americans.
    - ByteJockey 5y ago
      Where are you from? If it's from continental Europe, I wonder if that's the difference. We get our laws from English Common Law instead of civil law (except Louisiana). Can we get a brit in here to see what their conception of the law is?
      - spiralx 5y ago
        How courts interpret legislation and precedent differs a lot between common and civil law jurisdictions, but that's got nothing to do with how policing operates. Police everywhere can choose not to take action unless you're talking about a zero-tolerance society with Stasi-like levels of monitoring. "Selecting policing" is just "discretion", that particular phrase is possibly US-centric but the concept itself isn't.

unishark 5y ago

I don't think its selective enforcement so much as different crimes that can appear superficially to fit the same facts. Filing late because you made a mistake will cost you interest plus possibly a penalty relating to the amount. Tax evasion is a crime which can lead to jail time. The system will decide which one fits better based on your behavior, including how cooperative you are when they investigate it. Just like if you hit someone in the head and they die. Maybe you will get charged with murder or maybe they will believe it is an accident. There's really no way to remove these human factors from the justice system.