4 ms·

> How is your argument anything other than we must do everything within our rights and capacity, as a country, to prevent each and every failure of civic respon

by dvt 5y ago

> How is your argument anything other than we must do everything within our rights and capacity, as a country, to prevent each and every failure of civic responsibility? Apart from the insults (accusing me of not liking logic, etc.), this is a straw-man and, just to be clear, is absolutely not what I'm arguing.

9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
Let’s be extra clear: what exactly is your argument?
- FabHK 5y ago
  Not GP, but from my understanding GP was rebutting (convincingly) this specific proposition: > the very small community that we are talking about is disproportionately being subjected to murder
  - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
    The law of averages is not a convincing argument. I believe this paper ought to suffice as the entry point for the non-scientific community to pursue the academic research that supports my original assertion: Violence against transgender people: A review of United States data, Aggression and Violent Behavior, Volume 14, Issue 3, 2009, Pages 170-179 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178909000202 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13591...
    - dvt 5y ago
      That paper (full text in [1]) does not support your argument at all. In fact, murder rates are only mentioned in §3.2: > The report related stories of 51 transgender and gender non-conforming individuals under the age of 30 who were murdered in the United States between 1995 and 2005. Quite frankly, this number is even lower than the FBI's statistics. [1] https://transgender.or.ke/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Violence-Against-Transgende-People.pdf https://transgender.or.ke/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Violenc...
      - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
        Also from the referenced article: > What is beginning to emerge from these multiple sources of data are the increased risks of variety of types of violence, though in particular sexual violence, faced by transgender people Their conclusion directly states that there is an increased risk of violence for transgender people. Secondarily, their conclusion also hints at there being empirical evidence that one cannot extrapolate from murder rates to cover all forms of victim-having crime. That would imply that your argument is indeed suffering from the law of averages.
        dvt 5y ago
        > ...hints at there being empirical evidence that one cannot extrapolate from murder rates to cover all forms of victim-having crime... I hope you see how weak your argument is when your own cited paper merely "hints" at your purported conclusion.
        9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
        Merely hints at my contention that you are succumbing to the law of averages. It directly supports my original conclusion that there are disproportionate experiences of harms for transgender people.
9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
> this is a straw-man You seem to be succumbing to a psychological phenomenon called projection. In fact, you have set up a straw man argument, contrary to HN site guidelines of using the most charitable reading of my original comment, and then inverted your mental model such that you believe I am the one setting up the straw man.
9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
> Apart from the insults I was implicitly referring to this exchange: > > This is provably untrue. > Both of you are correct, you're just looking at probabilities conditioned in the opposite way. Which you neglected to incorporate into your mental model of this topic.

by dvt 5y ago

9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago

Let’s be extra clear: what exactly is your argument?

FabHK 5y ago
Not GP, but from my understanding GP was rebutting (convincingly) this specific proposition: > the very small community that we are talking about is disproportionately being subjected to murder
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
  The law of averages is not a convincing argument. I believe this paper ought to suffice as the entry point for the non-scientific community to pursue the academic research that supports my original assertion: Violence against transgender people: A review of United States data, Aggression and Violent Behavior, Volume 14, Issue 3, 2009, Pages 170-179 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178909000202 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13591...
  - dvt 5y ago
    That paper (full text in [1]) does not support your argument at all. In fact, murder rates are only mentioned in §3.2: > The report related stories of 51 transgender and gender non-conforming individuals under the age of 30 who were murdered in the United States between 1995 and 2005. Quite frankly, this number is even lower than the FBI's statistics. [1] https://transgender.or.ke/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Violence-Against-Transgende-People.pdf https://transgender.or.ke/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Violenc...
    - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
      Also from the referenced article: > What is beginning to emerge from these multiple sources of data are the increased risks of variety of types of violence, though in particular sexual violence, faced by transgender people Their conclusion directly states that there is an increased risk of violence for transgender people. Secondarily, their conclusion also hints at there being empirical evidence that one cannot extrapolate from murder rates to cover all forms of victim-having crime. That would imply that your argument is indeed suffering from the law of averages.
      - dvt 5y ago
        > ...hints at there being empirical evidence that one cannot extrapolate from murder rates to cover all forms of victim-having crime... I hope you see how weak your argument is when your own cited paper merely "hints" at your purported conclusion.
        9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
        Merely hints at my contention that you are succumbing to the law of averages. It directly supports my original conclusion that there are disproportionate experiences of harms for transgender people.

9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago

> this is a straw-man You seem to be succumbing to a psychological phenomenon called projection. In fact, you have set up a straw man argument, contrary to HN site guidelines of using the most charitable reading of my original comment, and then inverted your mental model such that you believe I am the one setting up the straw man.

9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago

> Apart from the insults I was implicitly referring to this exchange: > > This is provably untrue. > Both of you are correct, you're just looking at probabilities conditioned in the opposite way. Which you neglected to incorporate into your mental model of this topic.