5 ms·

This is a wonderfully nuanced thread on the subject from a trans woman in her thirties: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1385411504669790208.html https://thre

This is a wonderfully nuanced thread on the subject from a trans woman in her thirties: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1385411504669790208.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1385411504669790208.html Edit: I just noticed the original poster already converted this into a longform post, so the "reader app" version isn't really necessary https://liminalwarmth.com/the-hard-thing-about-hard-things-medical-gender-transition/ https://liminalwarmth.com/the-hard-thing-about-hard-things-m...

btilly 5y ago
Thank you for posting it. Some definite food for thought.
zozbot234 5y ago
A 77-fold tweet storm, that has got to be some kind of world record. It's surprising how much of it is just plain old common sense that would never be seen as sensitive or "political" in a halfway sane environment, stated in what comes off as a painfully diplomatic way, going to extreme lengths to not ruffle any feathers.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  I really didn't read it that way. It was an earnest, heartfelt piece largely discussing the author's own experience.
fao_ 5y ago
It's also important noting, semi-related to your post, that nobody is pushing for trans-surgeries for teenagers -- they are pushing for puberty blockers. What this means is that puberty is medically halted until the teenager is a legal age, when they will be able to decide which puberty they want. This avoids a lot of dysphoria-provoking secondary sexual characteristics from progressing, and also avoids accidentally "transing" a cisgender teenager. Nobody hesitates to give puberty blockers to cisgender teenagers, for other medical reasons. I knew a young girl who had to have puberty blockers because she had a precocious puberty and it was literally destroying her young body -- she was not old enough physically or mentally to be able to deal with it. However, for whatever reason, there is a huge backlash against giving it to transgender teenagers, despite it representing the best and ultimate choice in self-determination -- "Take these for a few years and then when you are 18 you can decide which puberty you want to go through". It leaves room for the individual to decide. If the person decides against it before then, they can stop and puberty immediately resumes as normal. When the suicide rates are as high as they are for transgender people, and there is the option of halting the things causing the suicidal feelings, the dysphoria, all of the physical and emotional and societal pain. Halting an onslaught of pain that is utterly soul destroying, and just giving them more time to make a choice and more of an informed decision, how can there be any empathically-cogent argument against that?
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  What, if any, are the permanent consequences of being on puberty blockers from, say, 13-18? I’d guess they’d be significant but that’s just a guess.
  - angus-prune 5y ago
    All the research I’ve seen shows no significant consequences to taking puberty blockers. Puberty proceeds as normal once the puberty blockers have been stopped. Puberty has quite a wide range of onset ages and this is not taking the range that far beyond the historical range.
    - nahnahno 5y ago
      What research have you done? Because it doesn't take long to find evidence that they have a list of side effects including some not-so-innocuous ones, and the admission that research is lacking: Possible long-term side effects of puberty blockers Lower bone density. To protect against this, we work to make sure every patient gets enough exercise, calcium and vitamin D, which can help keep bones healthy and strong. We also closely monitor patients’ bone density. Delayed growth plate closure, leading to slightly taller adult height. Less development of genital tissue, which may limit options for gender affirming surgery (bottom surgery) later in life. Other possible long-term side effects that are not yet known. https://www.stlouischildrens.org/conditions-treatments/transgender-center/puberty-blockers https://www.stlouischildrens.org/conditions-treatments/trans...
      - angus-prune 5y ago
        Quite extensive research actually. The overwhelming medical consensus is that puberty blockers are safe, and this is backed up by over three decades of their use in treating trans youth and even longer in treating precocious puberty. I leave it to the reader to determine whether they think having to take vitamin supplement counts as a significant side-effects. I would note, however, that it is also important to put these side effects in context. The contraceptive pill, for instance, also has reduced bone density as a possible side-effect. My reading of the research also does not indicate that it is majorly lacking. Medical research is written in a very conservative manner. Researchers avoid making claims beyond the limits of their research. This can look like doubt or uncertainty when it is not.

btilly 5y ago

Thank you for posting it. Some definite food for thought.

zozbot234 5y ago

A 77-fold tweet storm, that has got to be some kind of world record. It's surprising how much of it is just plain old common sense that would never be seen as sensitive or "political" in a halfway sane environment, stated in what comes off as a painfully diplomatic way, going to extreme lengths to not ruffle any feathers.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
I really didn't read it that way. It was an earnest, heartfelt piece largely discussing the author's own experience.

fao_ 5y ago

It's also important noting, semi-related to your post, that nobody is pushing for trans-surgeries for teenagers -- they are pushing for puberty blockers. What this means is that puberty is medically halted until the teenager is a legal age, when they will be able to decide which puberty they want. This avoids a lot of dysphoria-provoking secondary sexual characteristics from progressing, and also avoids accidentally "transing" a cisgender teenager. Nobody hesitates to give puberty blockers to cisgender teenagers, for other medical reasons. I knew a young girl who had to have puberty blockers because she had a precocious puberty and it was literally destroying her young body -- she was not old enough physically or mentally to be able to deal with it. However, for whatever reason, there is a huge backlash against giving it to transgender teenagers, despite it representing the best and ultimate choice in self-determination -- "Take these for a few years and then when you are 18 you can decide which puberty you want to go through". It leaves room for the individual to decide. If the person decides against it before then, they can stop and puberty immediately resumes as normal. When the suicide rates are as high as they are for transgender people, and there is the option of halting the things causing the suicidal feelings, the dysphoria, all of the physical and emotional and societal pain. Halting an onslaught of pain that is utterly soul destroying, and just giving them more time to make a choice and more of an informed decision, how can there be any empathically-cogent argument against that?

bradleyjg 5y ago
What, if any, are the permanent consequences of being on puberty blockers from, say, 13-18? I’d guess they’d be significant but that’s just a guess.
- angus-prune 5y ago
  All the research I’ve seen shows no significant consequences to taking puberty blockers. Puberty proceeds as normal once the puberty blockers have been stopped. Puberty has quite a wide range of onset ages and this is not taking the range that far beyond the historical range.
  - nahnahno 5y ago
    What research have you done? Because it doesn't take long to find evidence that they have a list of side effects including some not-so-innocuous ones, and the admission that research is lacking: Possible long-term side effects of puberty blockers Lower bone density. To protect against this, we work to make sure every patient gets enough exercise, calcium and vitamin D, which can help keep bones healthy and strong. We also closely monitor patients’ bone density. Delayed growth plate closure, leading to slightly taller adult height. Less development of genital tissue, which may limit options for gender affirming surgery (bottom surgery) later in life. Other possible long-term side effects that are not yet known. https://www.stlouischildrens.org/conditions-treatments/transgender-center/puberty-blockers https://www.stlouischildrens.org/conditions-treatments/trans...
    - angus-prune 5y ago
      Quite extensive research actually. The overwhelming medical consensus is that puberty blockers are safe, and this is backed up by over three decades of their use in treating trans youth and even longer in treating precocious puberty. I leave it to the reader to determine whether they think having to take vitamin supplement counts as a significant side-effects. I would note, however, that it is also important to put these side effects in context. The contraceptive pill, for instance, also has reduced bone density as a possible side-effect. My reading of the research also does not indicate that it is majorly lacking. Medical research is written in a very conservative manner. Researchers avoid making claims beyond the limits of their research. This can look like doubt or uncertainty when it is not.