4 ms·

No claim containing the string "is not recommended by anyone" will hold up, since eventually it's easy enough to find someone (probably a troll) who does recomm

No claim containing the string "is not recommended by anyone" will hold up, since eventually it's easy enough to find someone (probably a troll) who does recommend X practice. But the post that you're replying to, in general, holds up. "Gender reassignment surgery is typically only available to those 18 and older in the United States." https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/05/viral-image/no-young-children-cannot-take-hormones-or-change-t/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/05/viral-imag...

heterodoxxed 5y ago
That seems unnecessarily pedantic, since obviously it should be assumed to mean "not recommended by anyone who matters", but I've upvoted you for providing the source. I was editing my comment with that exact link when you posted.
btilly 5y ago
Define "gender reassignment surgery", please. Are we talking about a top operation, or a bottom one? Do mastectomies count as gender reassignment, or only if genitals are involved? Because if you include top surgery, then https://wng.org/roundups/state-mandates-payment-for-childrens-breast-removal-1617220421 https://wng.org/roundups/state-mandates-payment-for-children... says that where I live in California it is legal, and insurance must pay for it.
- heterodoxxed 5y ago
  | grounded in facts and Biblical truth You're going to have to come up with a better source.
  - alisonkisk 5y ago
    Better source: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2674039 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abst...
  - btilly 5y ago
    I paid little attention to what site that was on, just looked for the content. But it links to http://www.insurance.ca.gov/0250-insurers/0300-insurers/0200-bulletins/bulletin-notices-commiss-opinion/upload/Gender-dysphoria-male-chest-surgery-CDI-GC-opinion-letter-12-30-20.pdf http://www.insurance.ca.gov/0250-insurers/0300-insurers/0200... which is the actual decision posted on an official California government website. It confirms what I said.
    - heterodoxxed 5y ago
      | The WPATH standards of care also state, however, that male chest reconstruction surgery for female-to-male patients “could be carried out earlier” than the age of majority in certain cases, and ultimately should be considered on a case-by-case basis “depending on an adolescent’s specific clinical situation and goals for gender identity expression.” What do you think that specific clinical situation was in those situations?
    - geofft 5y ago
      > I paid little attention to what site that was on, just looked for the content. Sometimes people lie on the internet. And quite often, when they lie, they do so by omission or by inaccurately summarizing facts. In any case, the two points in this thread are in agreement. Top surgery is "typically only available to those 18 or older," as 'john-radio wrote. In atypical cases, it is available to those under 18, and it requires a doctor to a) decide that it's necessary and b) consciously go against WPATH recommendations when doing so. The legal opinion here is that an insurer may not come up with a rule that says that doctors may never decide that it's the right thing to do for a particular patient, because that's a decision a doctor is allowed to make.
      - btilly 5y ago
        The point that you're missing is that when there is a demand, a supply tends to rise. My child is smart enough to look for a doctor that is known to have evaluated cases on a "case by case basis" to provide the surgery that they want. As for how to find said doctor, if anyone in their online social network finds one, that information will be shared. In fact I would happily take an even money bet that my child would have no problem laying their hands on the name of such a doctor within 24 hours.
alisonkisk 5y ago
"typically" is bearing a lot of load there, and GRS is a broad term. Double mastectomy is practiced, at least: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2674039 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abst...
- heterodoxxed 5y ago
  Mastectomies are performed for non-gender-related reasons, such as prophylactic mastectomies, so it's arguable whether that falls under the definition of SRS/GRS. For any reason, it is exceedingly, vanishingly rare in children. It seems like an oddly small number to obsess over, especially considering over 8,000 non-trans teenagers between 13 and 19 receive breast augmentations each year. From your link: | the mean (SD) age was 19 (2.5) years for postsurgical participants and 17 (2.5) years for nonsurgical participants Surgical patients would be the ones who are in the most danger of suicide or self-harm or for whom nonsurgical (hormone) treatment is not an option. Also, | Self-reported regret was near 0. Here is the document that the report refers to as the standard for care for transgender patients: https://s3.amazonaws.com/amo_hub_content/Association140/files/Standards%20of%20Care%20V7%20-%202011%20WPATH%20(2)(1).pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/amo_hub_content/Association140/file... You'll want to look at Section VI: . Assessment and Treatment of Children and Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria.

heterodoxxed 5y ago

That seems unnecessarily pedantic, since obviously it should be assumed to mean "not recommended by anyone who matters", but I've upvoted you for providing the source. I was editing my comment with that exact link when you posted.

btilly 5y ago

Define "gender reassignment surgery", please. Are we talking about a top operation, or a bottom one? Do mastectomies count as gender reassignment, or only if genitals are involved? Because if you include top surgery, then https://wng.org/roundups/state-mandates-payment-for-childrens-breast-removal-1617220421 https://wng.org/roundups/state-mandates-payment-for-children... says that where I live in California it is legal, and insurance must pay for it.

heterodoxxed 5y ago
| grounded in facts and Biblical truth You're going to have to come up with a better source.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  Better source: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2674039 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abst...
- btilly 5y ago
  I paid little attention to what site that was on, just looked for the content. But it links to http://www.insurance.ca.gov/0250-insurers/0300-insurers/0200-bulletins/bulletin-notices-commiss-opinion/upload/Gender-dysphoria-male-chest-surgery-CDI-GC-opinion-letter-12-30-20.pdf http://www.insurance.ca.gov/0250-insurers/0300-insurers/0200... which is the actual decision posted on an official California government website. It confirms what I said.
  - heterodoxxed 5y ago
    | The WPATH standards of care also state, however, that male chest reconstruction surgery for female-to-male patients “could be carried out earlier” than the age of majority in certain cases, and ultimately should be considered on a case-by-case basis “depending on an adolescent’s specific clinical situation and goals for gender identity expression.” What do you think that specific clinical situation was in those situations?
  - geofft 5y ago
    > I paid little attention to what site that was on, just looked for the content. Sometimes people lie on the internet. And quite often, when they lie, they do so by omission or by inaccurately summarizing facts. In any case, the two points in this thread are in agreement. Top surgery is "typically only available to those 18 or older," as 'john-radio wrote. In atypical cases, it is available to those under 18, and it requires a doctor to a) decide that it's necessary and b) consciously go against WPATH recommendations when doing so. The legal opinion here is that an insurer may not come up with a rule that says that doctors may never decide that it's the right thing to do for a particular patient, because that's a decision a doctor is allowed to make.
    - btilly 5y ago
      The point that you're missing is that when there is a demand, a supply tends to rise. My child is smart enough to look for a doctor that is known to have evaluated cases on a "case by case basis" to provide the surgery that they want. As for how to find said doctor, if anyone in their online social network finds one, that information will be shared. In fact I would happily take an even money bet that my child would have no problem laying their hands on the name of such a doctor within 24 hours.

alisonkisk 5y ago

"typically" is bearing a lot of load there, and GRS is a broad term. Double mastectomy is practiced, at least: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2674039 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abst...

heterodoxxed 5y ago
Mastectomies are performed for non-gender-related reasons, such as prophylactic mastectomies, so it's arguable whether that falls under the definition of SRS/GRS. For any reason, it is exceedingly, vanishingly rare in children. It seems like an oddly small number to obsess over, especially considering over 8,000 non-trans teenagers between 13 and 19 receive breast augmentations each year. From your link: | the mean (SD) age was 19 (2.5) years for postsurgical participants and 17 (2.5) years for nonsurgical participants Surgical patients would be the ones who are in the most danger of suicide or self-harm or for whom nonsurgical (hormone) treatment is not an option. Also, | Self-reported regret was near 0. Here is the document that the report refers to as the standard for care for transgender patients: https://s3.amazonaws.com/amo_hub_content/Association140/files/Standards%20of%20Care%20V7%20-%202011%20WPATH%20(2)(1).pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/amo_hub_content/Association140/file... You'll want to look at Section VI: . Assessment and Treatment of Children and Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria.