5 ms·

It is indeed an alternative possiblity, but the possiblity that he was murdered should not be discounted. Murdering those that challenge authority has been happ

It is indeed an alternative possiblity, but the possiblity that he was murdered should not be discounted. Murdering those that challenge authority has been happening since the dawn of history and nothing has fundamentally changed. Well other than needing to make it look like a suicide since modern society likes to believe it's enlightened.

notafraudster 5y ago
McAfee was an obviously unhinged lunatic peddling fringe nonsense. You can make an argument that cryptocurrency poses a threat to the state, but a 75 year old man who spends 16 hours a day rambling on twitter about fringe stuff does not. The available evidence points strongly to a deeply mentally ill guy facing life in prison and killing himself.
- colordrops 5y ago
  "obviously an unhinged lunatic". That's a very strong statement that doesn't add to the discussion other than to trigger fear of association among commenters here. Facts are always better than ad hominem.
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    I'm not sure ad hominem applies here. Based on the background facts from the article alone "unhinged lunatic" isn't an irrelevant insult on character which ignores the subject matter rather a relevant point of refutation that the guy was truly unhinged and that should legitimately play a strong role in considering his claims. Could you always add more background? Sure, but I think there is more than enough in the article to point to him being genuinely unhinged.
    - colordrops 5y ago
      I read the same article as everyone else here and didn't see anything that qualified the label "unhinged lunatic". You should perhaps look up the meaning of ad hominem by the way - it absolutely applies.
      - zamadatix 5y ago
        > He also launched unsuccessful bids to become the Libertarian Party's candidate for the presidential elections in 2016 and 2020. In 2019 McAfee expressed his disdain for taxes, tweeting that he had not filed tax returns for eight years because "taxation is illegal." In the same year he was briefly detained in the Dominican Republic for allegedly bringing weapons into the country. McAfee never fitted into the mould of what a tech entrepreneur might look like. He was brash, reckless and never far away from the next scandal... McAfee was a visionary, but also hot headed. It was his temperament that got him into trouble throughout his life. In 2012 he was arrested in Guatemala, having been on the run in Belize where police were investigating the death of his neighbour... He will be remembered, rightly, as an important figure in the development of the technology scene of the 1980s and 1990s. But he will also be remembered as a deeply controversial figure, who at times seemed intent in taking a path in life that might lead to trouble. Hinged people aren't remembered for running between countries with various felony charges across borders because they think taxes are illegal in their home country while simultaneously campaigning for office there. It's not even a matter of if you believe he did or didn't do all of these, that he seemed to constantly find himself in these situations around the world is telling. > Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments, some but not all of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion to some irrelevant but often highly charged issue. Seems to match the understanding I gave in my comment not anything new - "Based on the background facts from the article alone "unhinged lunatic" isn't an irrelevant insult on character which ignores the subject matter rather a relevant point of refutation that the guy was truly unhinged and that should legitimately play a strong role in considering his claims". But since we're this far with it already might as well add some additional facts to get past why we shouldn't consider his claims at face value since we're both here: - "McAfee wrote on Twitter that he predicted that the price of one bitcoin would jump to $500,000 within three years, and that "If not, I will eat my own dick on national television." In July 2019, he continued to defend a prediction of $1 million by the end of 2020. In January 2020, however, he stated on Twitter that his previous predictions were simply "A ruse to onboard new users", and that bitcoin had limited potential because it was "an ancient technology"." the guy constantly lied about things he peddled, or at the very least was an inconsistent storyteller. - He wrote of himself in Belize "My fragile connection with the world of polite society has, without a doubt, been severed,” he wrote. “My attire would rank me among the worst-dressed Tijuana panhandlers. My hygiene is no better. Yesterday, for the first time, I urinated in public, in broad daylight." - On 11 August 2020, McAfee fabricated a hoax that he was arrested in Norway during the COVID-19 pandemic, after refusing to replace a lace thong with a more effective face mask. McAfee later posted a picture of himself to Twitter with a bruised eye, claiming that it occurred during this arrest.[81] However, the photo of the alleged arrest shows an officer with the German word for "police" on their uniform, so it could not have been an arrest in Norway. The Augsburg Police later confirmed McAfee unsuccessfully attempted to enter Germany on that day, but was not arrested. - He was known for consuming copious amounts of hard drugs and peddled bath salts for many years. Even a normally well held together person will be erratic, paranoid, and unreliable in that situation.
- the-dude 5y ago
  > but a 75 year old man who spends 16 hours a day rambling on twitter about fringe stuff does not Are we still talking about McAfee here? I am coveted.
- colechristensen 5y ago
  Unhinged folks can be murdered by state actors outside the law too... This is one of those situations which may well just be impossible to unravel in a satisfactory way. In fact, if you're clever and in intelligence, a good way to cover your tracks and generally be nefarious is to provide a reason for your desired outcome to happen. In other words, do what you can to encourage the unhinged tendencies of your target so that they might actually do it themselves or at least it will seem more plausible that they did.
  - pydry 5y ago
    As a thought experiment I have wondered before what I would do if I suspected the government might want to suicide me. It's depressing to think that I'd have to have perfect mental health and the appearance of perfect mental health to arise suspicion otherwise my suicide would be written off. This is, of course, literally impossible. Even assuming I did, almost anything bad that happened to me prior to the murder (losing a loved one, going to prison, being unable to go home, being arrested, stories of how you mistreated your cat) could be used to push for the idea of it being a suicide on mental health grounds. If Snowden were offed tomorrow, for example, there would be a veritable chorus of believed people declaring him mentally unwell whether or not there was any clinical evidence for it. Any additional "craziness" from my past (& most people have some) adds fuel to the fire. Any evidence that you considered suicide in the past then you're practically a write off. The fact that even foreshadowing it by saying "I would never commit suicide" would be used as evidence that I'm crazy (because "normal" people don't do that) is truly depressing. I thought this would work but it appears it's too easily dismissed as somethihg only a kook would do because Occam's razor. Assuming the other evidence can be dealt with quietly (videotape, autopsy, etc), state sanctioned murder of dissidents and whistleblowers this way seems fairly easy. Moreover, if you're a whistleblower or dissident with real mental health issues or god forbid have attempted it before a staged suicide is a very logical way of dealing with you. The public is primed to write it off without a second thought.
    - birthday 5y ago
      Well said. The guy litteraly got a TATTOO to make the point. He honestly didn't kill himself. Especially not without even tweeting one last time. If he did, I'm sure his wife will know and will confirm this soon.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > You can make an argument that cryptocurrency poses a threat to the state, but a 75 year old man who spends 16 hours a day rambling on twitter about fringe stuff does not. Unless they are, e.g., also head of state and government, but that’s not an issue with McAfee, though its not unheard of.
twiddling 5y ago
or he was mentally unstable and not being treated for that...
1-6 5y ago
There's a saying, you can't escape death and taxes.
- onemoresoop 5y ago
  You can escape taxes with death though
  - azernik 5y ago
    Not even then. I think they take back taxes out of your estate.
    - pupdogg 5y ago
      Not if your estate has more liabilities than assets!
Me1000 5y ago
It should absolutely be discounted. There's literally no evidence suggesting he was murdered. He was about to be extradited, the US Government was well on their way to making an example of him. There was no incentive to murder him.
- gpt5 5y ago
  Also of note - suicide in the US is extremely difficult if you've been identified as someone with intention. You get checked on every 15 minutes, including at night (which can be a torture by itself)
  - pupdogg 5y ago
    15 minute checks aside, I’m pretty sure every federal prison has enough amount of cameras to keep an eye out from the local central command station…especially in 2021. Still surprised there was no evidence of this sort for Jeffery Epstein.
  - beambot 5y ago
    Doesn't seem that uncommon: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/02/13/jaildeaths/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/02/13/jaildeaths/
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    I'm going to mention that this jail was not in the US. I'm not familiar with jail policies in Spain, and it might be easy. As far as the US is concerned, you've quoted policy. I'm pretty sure that jails and prisons in the US are supposed to provide medical care, mental health care, food enough for decent health (without having maggots): There are plenty of examples of it not happening. "I didn't know they were suicidal" or "We've been short staffed, and I couldn't check on him" are easy excuses.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- jldugger 5y ago
  I feel like, in the world of outlandish theories, faking his own death is far more likely than a gangland murder.
woodpanel 5y ago
Make that "Murdering those that threaten authority". I consider it an "alternative possiblity" that Epstein hung himself.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Sure. But how many people in high places -- billionaires and top politicians -- had hung out with McAfee, on his yacht possibly sticking their dicks where they shouldn't have stuck them? Feels much, much more plausible that Epstein was silenced than that McAfee would have been. At least AFAICR I haven't seen any even remotely credible reason why anyone would have needed McAfee silenced.

notafraudster 5y ago

McAfee was an obviously unhinged lunatic peddling fringe nonsense. You can make an argument that cryptocurrency poses a threat to the state, but a 75 year old man who spends 16 hours a day rambling on twitter about fringe stuff does not. The available evidence points strongly to a deeply mentally ill guy facing life in prison and killing himself.

colordrops 5y ago
"obviously an unhinged lunatic". That's a very strong statement that doesn't add to the discussion other than to trigger fear of association among commenters here. Facts are always better than ad hominem.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  I'm not sure ad hominem applies here. Based on the background facts from the article alone "unhinged lunatic" isn't an irrelevant insult on character which ignores the subject matter rather a relevant point of refutation that the guy was truly unhinged and that should legitimately play a strong role in considering his claims. Could you always add more background? Sure, but I think there is more than enough in the article to point to him being genuinely unhinged.
  - colordrops 5y ago
    I read the same article as everyone else here and didn't see anything that qualified the label "unhinged lunatic". You should perhaps look up the meaning of ad hominem by the way - it absolutely applies.
    - zamadatix 5y ago
      > He also launched unsuccessful bids to become the Libertarian Party's candidate for the presidential elections in 2016 and 2020. In 2019 McAfee expressed his disdain for taxes, tweeting that he had not filed tax returns for eight years because "taxation is illegal." In the same year he was briefly detained in the Dominican Republic for allegedly bringing weapons into the country. McAfee never fitted into the mould of what a tech entrepreneur might look like. He was brash, reckless and never far away from the next scandal... McAfee was a visionary, but also hot headed. It was his temperament that got him into trouble throughout his life. In 2012 he was arrested in Guatemala, having been on the run in Belize where police were investigating the death of his neighbour... He will be remembered, rightly, as an important figure in the development of the technology scene of the 1980s and 1990s. But he will also be remembered as a deeply controversial figure, who at times seemed intent in taking a path in life that might lead to trouble. Hinged people aren't remembered for running between countries with various felony charges across borders because they think taxes are illegal in their home country while simultaneously campaigning for office there. It's not even a matter of if you believe he did or didn't do all of these, that he seemed to constantly find himself in these situations around the world is telling. > Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments, some but not all of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion to some irrelevant but often highly charged issue. Seems to match the understanding I gave in my comment not anything new - "Based on the background facts from the article alone "unhinged lunatic" isn't an irrelevant insult on character which ignores the subject matter rather a relevant point of refutation that the guy was truly unhinged and that should legitimately play a strong role in considering his claims". But since we're this far with it already might as well add some additional facts to get past why we shouldn't consider his claims at face value since we're both here: - "McAfee wrote on Twitter that he predicted that the price of one bitcoin would jump to $500,000 within three years, and that "If not, I will eat my own dick on national television." In July 2019, he continued to defend a prediction of $1 million by the end of 2020. In January 2020, however, he stated on Twitter that his previous predictions were simply "A ruse to onboard new users", and that bitcoin had limited potential because it was "an ancient technology"." the guy constantly lied about things he peddled, or at the very least was an inconsistent storyteller. - He wrote of himself in Belize "My fragile connection with the world of polite society has, without a doubt, been severed,” he wrote. “My attire would rank me among the worst-dressed Tijuana panhandlers. My hygiene is no better. Yesterday, for the first time, I urinated in public, in broad daylight." - On 11 August 2020, McAfee fabricated a hoax that he was arrested in Norway during the COVID-19 pandemic, after refusing to replace a lace thong with a more effective face mask. McAfee later posted a picture of himself to Twitter with a bruised eye, claiming that it occurred during this arrest.[81] However, the photo of the alleged arrest shows an officer with the German word for "police" on their uniform, so it could not have been an arrest in Norway. The Augsburg Police later confirmed McAfee unsuccessfully attempted to enter Germany on that day, but was not arrested. - He was known for consuming copious amounts of hard drugs and peddled bath salts for many years. Even a normally well held together person will be erratic, paranoid, and unreliable in that situation.
the-dude 5y ago
> but a 75 year old man who spends 16 hours a day rambling on twitter about fringe stuff does not Are we still talking about McAfee here? I am coveted.
colechristensen 5y ago
Unhinged folks can be murdered by state actors outside the law too... This is one of those situations which may well just be impossible to unravel in a satisfactory way. In fact, if you're clever and in intelligence, a good way to cover your tracks and generally be nefarious is to provide a reason for your desired outcome to happen. In other words, do what you can to encourage the unhinged tendencies of your target so that they might actually do it themselves or at least it will seem more plausible that they did.
- pydry 5y ago
  As a thought experiment I have wondered before what I would do if I suspected the government might want to suicide me. It's depressing to think that I'd have to have perfect mental health and the appearance of perfect mental health to arise suspicion otherwise my suicide would be written off. This is, of course, literally impossible. Even assuming I did, almost anything bad that happened to me prior to the murder (losing a loved one, going to prison, being unable to go home, being arrested, stories of how you mistreated your cat) could be used to push for the idea of it being a suicide on mental health grounds. If Snowden were offed tomorrow, for example, there would be a veritable chorus of believed people declaring him mentally unwell whether or not there was any clinical evidence for it. Any additional "craziness" from my past (& most people have some) adds fuel to the fire. Any evidence that you considered suicide in the past then you're practically a write off. The fact that even foreshadowing it by saying "I would never commit suicide" would be used as evidence that I'm crazy (because "normal" people don't do that) is truly depressing. I thought this would work but it appears it's too easily dismissed as somethihg only a kook would do because Occam's razor. Assuming the other evidence can be dealt with quietly (videotape, autopsy, etc), state sanctioned murder of dissidents and whistleblowers this way seems fairly easy. Moreover, if you're a whistleblower or dissident with real mental health issues or god forbid have attempted it before a staged suicide is a very logical way of dealing with you. The public is primed to write it off without a second thought.
  - birthday 5y ago
    Well said. The guy litteraly got a TATTOO to make the point. He honestly didn't kill himself. Especially not without even tweeting one last time. If he did, I'm sure his wife will know and will confirm this soon.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> You can make an argument that cryptocurrency poses a threat to the state, but a 75 year old man who spends 16 hours a day rambling on twitter about fringe stuff does not. Unless they are, e.g., also head of state and government, but that’s not an issue with McAfee, though its not unheard of.

twiddling 5y ago

or he was mentally unstable and not being treated for that...

1-6 5y ago

There's a saying, you can't escape death and taxes.

onemoresoop 5y ago
You can escape taxes with death though
- azernik 5y ago
  Not even then. I think they take back taxes out of your estate.
  - pupdogg 5y ago
    Not if your estate has more liabilities than assets!

Me1000 5y ago

It should absolutely be discounted. There's literally no evidence suggesting he was murdered. He was about to be extradited, the US Government was well on their way to making an example of him. There was no incentive to murder him.

gpt5 5y ago
Also of note - suicide in the US is extremely difficult if you've been identified as someone with intention. You get checked on every 15 minutes, including at night (which can be a torture by itself)
- pupdogg 5y ago
  15 minute checks aside, I’m pretty sure every federal prison has enough amount of cameras to keep an eye out from the local central command station…especially in 2021. Still surprised there was no evidence of this sort for Jeffery Epstein.
- beambot 5y ago
  Doesn't seem that uncommon: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/02/13/jaildeaths/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/02/13/jaildeaths/
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  I'm going to mention that this jail was not in the US. I'm not familiar with jail policies in Spain, and it might be easy. As far as the US is concerned, you've quoted policy. I'm pretty sure that jails and prisons in the US are supposed to provide medical care, mental health care, food enough for decent health (without having maggots): There are plenty of examples of it not happening. "I didn't know they were suicidal" or "We've been short staffed, and I couldn't check on him" are easy excuses.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jldugger 5y ago
I feel like, in the world of outlandish theories, faking his own death is far more likely than a gangland murder.

woodpanel 5y ago

Make that "Murdering those that threaten authority". I consider it an "alternative possiblity" that Epstein hung himself.

CRConrad 5y ago
Sure. But how many people in high places -- billionaires and top politicians -- had hung out with McAfee, on his yacht possibly sticking their dicks where they shouldn't have stuck them? Feels much, much more plausible that Epstein was silenced than that McAfee would have been. At least AFAICR I haven't seen any even remotely credible reason why anyone would have needed McAfee silenced.