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> gender _is_ a social construct. If gender is distinct from sex, then can you explain the qualifying characteristics of a "gender"? What is the definition of

> gender _is_ a social construct. If gender is distinct from sex, then can you explain the qualifying characteristics of a "gender"? What is the definition of "woman"? What is the definition of "man"?

whateveracct 5y ago
That's kind of the point. There isn't one. Wearing high heels isn't related to being a woman intrinsically, and you don't have to be a woman to wear high heels.
- teakettle42 5y ago
  That’s largely the source of my confusion. The way I see it, either: - ‘gender’ is a synonym for ‘sex’ - ‘gender’ is being misused as a synonym ‘gender roles’, which are defined by one’s sex. If that’s not correct, then what is the actual correct definition of gender?
  - saxonww 5y ago
    I don't think I'm exactly right about this, but consider three sets of words: - man/woman - male/female - masculine/feminine There is a concept of grammatical gender, where words can be masculine or feminine (or neuter in some cases, and there are other systems as well with different words). You don't talk about man words or male words, it's masculine. So, I tend to think of gender as masculine or feminine. That covers most people (although not all: nonbinary, gender fluid, genderqueer, etc. are all real). I tend to think of sex as male or female. At least for human beings, that covers most people (not all, intersex is a real thing, and there are other unusual but 'natural' configurations as well) So one way to look at this - which again, is probably not exactly correct, but it's how I think - male/masculine and female/feminine are what we've traditionally thought of as man and woman. But, I think it's pretty clear now that we need to account for the other combinations, i.e. male/feminine and female/masculine. That's where cis- and trans- come in: male/masculine is a cis male, female/masculine is a trans male, both are subsets in the set of all men. Same with women. We've got nonbinary, genderqueer, etc. as well. I don't really understand the latter, but the former is pretty easy to explain: imagine being told you had to be masculine or feminine, and your response was "No, I don't. I prefer or reject some of each." Overall, to me, gender is about what you like and how you behave, while sex is more biology (i.e., what's in your pants). It's easier to understand the arguments if you completely separate gender from sex, and don't make assumptions about one based on the other. In fact, I think the assumptions - e.g. gender roles - are the entire problem, and if people would just stop with that, a lot of things would get better.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > - ‘gender’ is being misused as a synonym ‘gender roles’, which are defined by one’s sex. Sure, “Gender” = “What gender role(s?) a person plays” is one way to put the social definition of gender. (Seems pretty succinct and workable, so you can drop the “misused”.) Here's where you go wrong, though: Gender, in terms of what gender roles people play, is not always determined purely by biological sex. There, no need to be confused any more. HTH!

whateveracct 5y ago

That's kind of the point. There isn't one. Wearing high heels isn't related to being a woman intrinsically, and you don't have to be a woman to wear high heels.

teakettle42 5y ago
That’s largely the source of my confusion. The way I see it, either: - ‘gender’ is a synonym for ‘sex’ - ‘gender’ is being misused as a synonym ‘gender roles’, which are defined by one’s sex. If that’s not correct, then what is the actual correct definition of gender?
- saxonww 5y ago
  I don't think I'm exactly right about this, but consider three sets of words: - man/woman - male/female - masculine/feminine There is a concept of grammatical gender, where words can be masculine or feminine (or neuter in some cases, and there are other systems as well with different words). You don't talk about man words or male words, it's masculine. So, I tend to think of gender as masculine or feminine. That covers most people (although not all: nonbinary, gender fluid, genderqueer, etc. are all real). I tend to think of sex as male or female. At least for human beings, that covers most people (not all, intersex is a real thing, and there are other unusual but 'natural' configurations as well) So one way to look at this - which again, is probably not exactly correct, but it's how I think - male/masculine and female/feminine are what we've traditionally thought of as man and woman. But, I think it's pretty clear now that we need to account for the other combinations, i.e. male/feminine and female/masculine. That's where cis- and trans- come in: male/masculine is a cis male, female/masculine is a trans male, both are subsets in the set of all men. Same with women. We've got nonbinary, genderqueer, etc. as well. I don't really understand the latter, but the former is pretty easy to explain: imagine being told you had to be masculine or feminine, and your response was "No, I don't. I prefer or reject some of each." Overall, to me, gender is about what you like and how you behave, while sex is more biology (i.e., what's in your pants). It's easier to understand the arguments if you completely separate gender from sex, and don't make assumptions about one based on the other. In fact, I think the assumptions - e.g. gender roles - are the entire problem, and if people would just stop with that, a lot of things would get better.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > - ‘gender’ is being misused as a synonym ‘gender roles’, which are defined by one’s sex. Sure, “Gender” = “What gender role(s?) a person plays” is one way to put the social definition of gender. (Seems pretty succinct and workable, so you can drop the “misused”.) Here's where you go wrong, though: Gender, in terms of what gender roles people play, is not always determined purely by biological sex. There, no need to be confused any more. HTH!