8 ms·

It's weird to me that sexuality and identity are so intertwined. Why should someone "come out" as anything? (I know a lot of people "come out" as various thing

It's weird to me that sexuality and identity are so intertwined. Why should someone "come out" as anything? (I know a lot of people "come out" as various things in a mere bid for attention... I'll leave that issue aside.) If I knew someone casually for a while who never talked about his/her sexuality, but one day they said "I never said this before, but I'm a heterosexual", I'd certainly feel awkward about it. Why did he/she say that to me? To take it further, why phrase it "I am ..." instead of "I have ... desires"? If the latter sounds awkward, why is the former any less awkward?

watwut 5y ago
People come out, because they keep their gayness secret for a whole lot of good reasons. The alternative to coming put is not dating your boyfriend and going to reataurant. It is making sure no one ever see you with him, kiss him, hold his hands. Also, parents and relative reacting badly on finding out ypu are gay are not exactly unheard of. There are also plenty of accepting parents, sure. But as heterosexual, they already assume you are one and you dont have to guess whether it will be breaker for them or not.
ssully 5y ago
Because it is something they felt the need to repress for a potentially long portion of their life. Coming out is the start of a process to release the pressure that has built up from that repression and letting the person's personal view of themselves realign with the public view of themselves. Also, yes it is weird that sexuality and identity are intertwined, but that is not something that is new and it is something that is tied to all sexualities, including heterosexuals.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
delecti 5y ago
It's because it was ostracized for so long. If most of society is telling you that something is wrong with you, then you'll seek out other people who share that trait and develop a sense of community with them. It's normal to identify with your community.
smoldesu 5y ago
The experience of "coming out" (to me) was reconciling my sexuality with my family. In America, you're basically born straight and everyone in your family assumes so. The easiest part of it was coming out to my close friends, who already know that I'm not vain or chasing attention with it. The harder half is finding some way to frame it to your parents (and grandparents). Knocking on their door, sitting down in their home and eating their food is just irreversibly ruined. In some sense, I know it's my fault: I'm basically telling them that their bloodline ends here, I hope they enjoyed their transient acknowledgement on this earth while it lasts. That's a tough pill to swallow for a generation that's all about making the idyllic "50s family" a reality. > To take it further, why phrase it "I am ..." instead of "I have ... desires"? If the latter sounds awkward, why is the former any less awkward? I wish we could do that too, but if I told that to people now I'm gay and a freak. Society won't care one way or the other, because queerness is political now. You're either with "them" or against "us", and never the two shall meet. That's just my view on it though. I'm only 1 (one) gay person out of millions, so take my anecdata with a grain of salt.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  > In some sense, I know it's my fault: I'm basically telling them that their bloodline ends here, I hope they enjoyed their transient acknowledgement on this earth while it lasts. That's a tough pill to swallow for a generation that's all about making the idyllic "50s family" a reality. That is an uncommonly insightful and empathetic characterization.
  - ahartmetz 5y ago
    I think fault implies intention, so I wouldn't call it fault. It's just a conflict of life goals and personal properties that no one particularly chose to have. Though I also approve of the intention of GP to understand the situation from their parents' perspective.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      Agreed.
orthecreedence 5y ago
I think many times coming out is about reconciling expectations with reality. If people assume one thing about you but that is not the case, coming out can be a way to correct assumptions. In a sense, not coming out can feel like lying to those close to you. It can also have the effect of making a relationship more close...sharing something intimate with someone can strengthen a friendship (or, obviously, break it in some cases).
dougmwne 5y ago
It's only weird to you because you are almost certainly straight, cis and male. Let me explain. All of society is structured around your identity. Like the fish, you can't even see the water because you have always been in it. I'm unlikely to help you see the water, but let me at least try. If you meet a friend, he might comment he saw a movie with his new girlfriend. He shows you a photo on his phone and you say she's really cute and nice catch. He asks if you want to grab a beer later. You say you have to pick up your wife from the airport later and pick up the kids from their school. All of this, the girlfriend, the comment she's cute, the wife the kids, they are your life. It is who you are. If someone asks what you are doing later, it's all you have to say, because that's what you do. It is your identity. I have a partner. We have lived together for 14 years. In order to tell you anything about myself, I have to tell you about him too. It is my life. It is what I do. This is who I am. Coming out is something you do with each and every new person you meet. I am not rubbing your face in my sexuality. I'm just talking about me. If I tell you I went out for lunch, but avoid telling you with who, that is in the closet. If I tell you it was with my boyfriend, that is out of the closet. So yup, done hiding here, and not going to start again because some people might be clueless or treat me as less. Edit: nice, downvotes. Did I make you feel silly for listening to taking points from bigots?
- jfengel 5y ago
  Thank you, that was very nicely said. It's distressing the degree to which people want to blame others for their identities while regarding their own as some kind of fundamental default of nature. It's only "identity politics" when it's somebody else's identity.
  - dougmwne 5y ago
    Thanks. I think that gets lost easily in these discussions. This is my family. My partner, my mother and father-in-law, my sister-in-law, my nephew, my home, my plans for the future. It's connected to everything I might tell you about my life over the past 14 years. Having someone label all that as "awkward" or "political" is pretty extreme, especially when the person suggesting it doesn't even have a hint at the enormity of what they just said. It's the very definition of "casual erasure", something that sounds political and till someone comes up to you and tries to erase you. Edit: to the people down voting my mother-in-law, she is a kind and caring woman!
Karrot_Kream 5y ago
> If I knew someone casually for a while who never talked about his/her sexuality, but one day they said "I never said this before, but I'm a heterosexual", I'd certainly feel awkward about it. Why did he/she say that to me? That's because the dominant mode of society in _most_ cultures involves a heterosexual identity; it's just so deeply embedded in culture that most people can't tell. For the longest time, it was (and still is in many cultures) socially acceptable for men to ogle women. Why? Because there was a tacit understanding that part of being a man meant being hypersexual, and because all men are attracted to women (in this trope), ogling women is just part of "being a man". This ties a man's behavior and identity with his sexuality.
bob_roberts 5y ago
> Why should someone "come out" as anything? Because the choice is either to hide important aspects of yourself, or else come out, whether that's explicitly by saying something, or implicitly by your actions. In my case, if I didn't explicitly come out as nonbinary / trans, the change in my wardrobe and appearance was going to "out" myself regardless. It seemed healthier and emotionally safer to be upfront about it with the people I know. In your example, a person doesn't have to "come out" as heterosexual, they can just introduce their spouse, or mention who they are dating. Maybe in an ideal world that would be the case for everyone, but it's not today.
notJim 5y ago
> Why should someone "come out" as anything? > Why did he/she say that to me? Isn't this just the process of getting to know someone? As you get to know someone, you share more information about yourself. I think it's a pretty normal desire for people you spend time around to understand you, and part of that is understanding the way you relate to other people.
bostonvaulter2 5y ago
> To take it further, why phrase it "I am ..." instead of "I have ... desires"? If the latter sounds awkward, why is the former any less awkward? I definitely agree on this point, and what I find fascinating is that in my (albeit very limited) knowledge of French, instead of saying a phrase like "I am hungry", you say "j'ai faim", which has the literal translation of "I have hunger". https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the/french-word-for-9a6e76e457cd199873229d9124546248eb8b50f1.html https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the/french-word-for-9a6e76...
konogasa 5y ago
> Why should someone "come out" as anything? "When are you going to find a good girl to marry?" "Mom, I'm gay". For example.

watwut 5y ago

People come out, because they keep their gayness secret for a whole lot of good reasons. The alternative to coming put is not dating your boyfriend and going to reataurant. It is making sure no one ever see you with him, kiss him, hold his hands. Also, parents and relative reacting badly on finding out ypu are gay are not exactly unheard of. There are also plenty of accepting parents, sure. But as heterosexual, they already assume you are one and you dont have to guess whether it will be breaker for them or not.

ssully 5y ago

Because it is something they felt the need to repress for a potentially long portion of their life. Coming out is the start of a process to release the pressure that has built up from that repression and letting the person's personal view of themselves realign with the public view of themselves. Also, yes it is weird that sexuality and identity are intertwined, but that is not something that is new and it is something that is tied to all sexualities, including heterosexuals.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

delecti 5y ago

It's because it was ostracized for so long. If most of society is telling you that something is wrong with you, then you'll seek out other people who share that trait and develop a sense of community with them. It's normal to identify with your community.

smoldesu 5y ago

The experience of "coming out" (to me) was reconciling my sexuality with my family. In America, you're basically born straight and everyone in your family assumes so. The easiest part of it was coming out to my close friends, who already know that I'm not vain or chasing attention with it. The harder half is finding some way to frame it to your parents (and grandparents). Knocking on their door, sitting down in their home and eating their food is just irreversibly ruined. In some sense, I know it's my fault: I'm basically telling them that their bloodline ends here, I hope they enjoyed their transient acknowledgement on this earth while it lasts. That's a tough pill to swallow for a generation that's all about making the idyllic "50s family" a reality. > To take it further, why phrase it "I am ..." instead of "I have ... desires"? If the latter sounds awkward, why is the former any less awkward? I wish we could do that too, but if I told that to people now I'm gay and a freak. Society won't care one way or the other, because queerness is political now. You're either with "them" or against "us", and never the two shall meet. That's just my view on it though. I'm only 1 (one) gay person out of millions, so take my anecdata with a grain of salt.

throwaway894345 5y ago
> In some sense, I know it's my fault: I'm basically telling them that their bloodline ends here, I hope they enjoyed their transient acknowledgement on this earth while it lasts. That's a tough pill to swallow for a generation that's all about making the idyllic "50s family" a reality. That is an uncommonly insightful and empathetic characterization.
- ahartmetz 5y ago
  I think fault implies intention, so I wouldn't call it fault. It's just a conflict of life goals and personal properties that no one particularly chose to have. Though I also approve of the intention of GP to understand the situation from their parents' perspective.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    Agreed.

orthecreedence 5y ago

I think many times coming out is about reconciling expectations with reality. If people assume one thing about you but that is not the case, coming out can be a way to correct assumptions. In a sense, not coming out can feel like lying to those close to you. It can also have the effect of making a relationship more close...sharing something intimate with someone can strengthen a friendship (or, obviously, break it in some cases).

dougmwne 5y ago

It's only weird to you because you are almost certainly straight, cis and male. Let me explain. All of society is structured around your identity. Like the fish, you can't even see the water because you have always been in it. I'm unlikely to help you see the water, but let me at least try. If you meet a friend, he might comment he saw a movie with his new girlfriend. He shows you a photo on his phone and you say she's really cute and nice catch. He asks if you want to grab a beer later. You say you have to pick up your wife from the airport later and pick up the kids from their school. All of this, the girlfriend, the comment she's cute, the wife the kids, they are your life. It is who you are. If someone asks what you are doing later, it's all you have to say, because that's what you do. It is your identity. I have a partner. We have lived together for 14 years. In order to tell you anything about myself, I have to tell you about him too. It is my life. It is what I do. This is who I am. Coming out is something you do with each and every new person you meet. I am not rubbing your face in my sexuality. I'm just talking about me. If I tell you I went out for lunch, but avoid telling you with who, that is in the closet. If I tell you it was with my boyfriend, that is out of the closet. So yup, done hiding here, and not going to start again because some people might be clueless or treat me as less. Edit: nice, downvotes. Did I make you feel silly for listening to taking points from bigots?

jfengel 5y ago
Thank you, that was very nicely said. It's distressing the degree to which people want to blame others for their identities while regarding their own as some kind of fundamental default of nature. It's only "identity politics" when it's somebody else's identity.
- dougmwne 5y ago
  Thanks. I think that gets lost easily in these discussions. This is my family. My partner, my mother and father-in-law, my sister-in-law, my nephew, my home, my plans for the future. It's connected to everything I might tell you about my life over the past 14 years. Having someone label all that as "awkward" or "political" is pretty extreme, especially when the person suggesting it doesn't even have a hint at the enormity of what they just said. It's the very definition of "casual erasure", something that sounds political and till someone comes up to you and tries to erase you. Edit: to the people down voting my mother-in-law, she is a kind and caring woman!

Karrot_Kream 5y ago

> If I knew someone casually for a while who never talked about his/her sexuality, but one day they said "I never said this before, but I'm a heterosexual", I'd certainly feel awkward about it. Why did he/she say that to me? That's because the dominant mode of society in _most_ cultures involves a heterosexual identity; it's just so deeply embedded in culture that most people can't tell. For the longest time, it was (and still is in many cultures) socially acceptable for men to ogle women. Why? Because there was a tacit understanding that part of being a man meant being hypersexual, and because all men are attracted to women (in this trope), ogling women is just part of "being a man". This ties a man's behavior and identity with his sexuality.

bob_roberts 5y ago

> Why should someone "come out" as anything? Because the choice is either to hide important aspects of yourself, or else come out, whether that's explicitly by saying something, or implicitly by your actions. In my case, if I didn't explicitly come out as nonbinary / trans, the change in my wardrobe and appearance was going to "out" myself regardless. It seemed healthier and emotionally safer to be upfront about it with the people I know. In your example, a person doesn't have to "come out" as heterosexual, they can just introduce their spouse, or mention who they are dating. Maybe in an ideal world that would be the case for everyone, but it's not today.

notJim 5y ago

> Why should someone "come out" as anything? > Why did he/she say that to me? Isn't this just the process of getting to know someone? As you get to know someone, you share more information about yourself. I think it's a pretty normal desire for people you spend time around to understand you, and part of that is understanding the way you relate to other people.

bostonvaulter2 5y ago

> To take it further, why phrase it "I am ..." instead of "I have ... desires"? If the latter sounds awkward, why is the former any less awkward? I definitely agree on this point, and what I find fascinating is that in my (albeit very limited) knowledge of French, instead of saying a phrase like "I am hungry", you say "j'ai faim", which has the literal translation of "I have hunger". https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the/french-word-for-9a6e76e457cd199873229d9124546248eb8b50f1.html https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the/french-word-for-9a6e76...

konogasa 5y ago

> Why should someone "come out" as anything? "When are you going to find a good girl to marry?" "Mom, I'm gay". For example.