7 ms·

As Gun Ownership Rises in the United States, Black Imagery Shifts

28 points by exolymph 5y ago

omginternets 5y ago
I recently moved to CT, and decided to get a firearms permit. CT law is relatively restrictive in the wake of Sandy Hook, and one is now required to take a firearms safety course before submitting the paperwork. There were about 30 of us altogether: roughly 50% men and 50% women, 7-10 Black classmates, 2 East-Asians, a handful (maybe 5?) Latinos, and the rest White. Towards the end of the day, I got to talking with some classmates, and finally with one of the instructors. After a bit of chit-chat, I mentioned that I was surprised to see so many ostensibly different people in a gun club. He replied that the classroom composition was more or less representative of the gun club's constituents. After pressing him a bit, he conceded that it was representative of those doing firearm certifications, but only marginally more diverse than the club's membership. After a bit more chit-chat, he told me he was a lifelong democrat. Further, he said, "About 10% of the members here are crazy Trump-voting nutjobs, but they're kind. About 50% of them are traditional republicans, who didn't tell me who they voted for. And the remaining 40% either told me they were Democrats or independents, or we never talked politics." I told him I was very surprised by all of this, and he told me it was recent. In his estimation, it all started in 2016. I lived abroad from 2010 to 2020, and this is not how I remember things. I don't know what conclusion to draw from this, but it seems like something is very much afoot.
- ergot_vacation 5y ago
  People no longer trust their government, on a fundamental level. There has always been some degree of skepticism, but now trust has broken down completely. Politicians were always seen as crooked, but they were at least somewhat capable of "keeping the lights on." Increasingly in recent years, it has become clear they can barely even do this anymore. Add to this an accompanying complete breakdown in trust for institutions like the media and academia, and you have half your answer. The other half is that shit's bad. Corona, soaring wealth inequality, tumbling quality of physical goods and art/entertainment. Everything feels like it's a hollowed out facade now, whether it's the job you're working, the food you're buying, or the movie you're watching. Put these two together, and you get a population that is being forced to realize The End is coming. Or at least A end. Chaos and upheaval is at hand, and the government might not be able (or interested in) protecting you. In such a circumstance, buying a gun and learning to use it is one of many obvious responses.
  - omginternets 5y ago
    It seems like you're responding to my last sentence, and yeah, sure. I didn't want to get into the "why" because it's hard to move past superficial/general statements like this (though you and I are mostly in agreement). What's less clear to me is exactly where this is all headed.
  - ElViajero 5y ago
    > People no longer trust their government, on a fundamental level. > The End is coming. > Chaos and upheaval is at hand, Stop your horses cowboy. There is a big difference between political disillusion and "The End of the Times". The USA is a highly developed country, a flawed one, but with many resources to fix the current situation. > buying a gun and learning to use it is one of many obvious responses. To move to another country would be the real obvious response if you expect yours to go into chaos. To buy a gun and expect something positive out of it seems quite a Hollywood-inspired disillusion.
    - philwelch 5y ago
      > To move to another country would be the real obvious response if you expect yours to go into chaos. Which country would you recommend?
      - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
        Switzerland seems pretty sane, at least from a distance.
    - indrax 5y ago
      Emigration is not a realistic option for most people, and it becomes harder as the need becomes more obvious.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
et2o 5y ago
Well, this certainly transcends traditional liberal vs. conservative dogmas.
- philwelch 5y ago
  It's less surprising from within the RKBA community than it might seem from the outside, especially among the younger generations.
vgeek 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act Will this type of legislation make a resurgence as a result?
cwkoss 5y ago
The second amendment is most important for communities where police are failing in their role of serving and protecting. Cops don't have a duty to protect or a requirement to respond to calls promptly. Historically and currently, the police provide less protection to racial minorities. (Including some examples where being armed has prevented violence by police against racial minorities - guns arguably played a significant role in achieving black suffrage) I'm a privileged white dude who doesn't feel the need to own a gun, but I strongly believe we must balance gun control measures to ensure that a black single mother with reasonable fears of violence living in an underserved community can protect her own family with a gun when that is effectively her only option.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > strongly believe we must balance gun control measures to ensure that a black single mother with reasonable fears of violence living in an underserved community can protect her own family with a gun when that is effectively her only option. I strongly believe that if we have underserved communities where black single mothers reasonably fear that a gun is effectively their only option to protect their family from violence, we need to fix that problem and discussing any other response to that situatiin is analogous to debating the set list for the band on the _RMS Titanic_ in terms of actually solving problems.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    Yes, we need to fix that problem. Absolutely. But when is that going to happen? Not today, and probably not this year. In the meantime, that black single mother is out there, needing to protect herself and her children. It's not either/or.
  - thomastjeffery 5y ago
    If we can save the Titanic, maybe it's worthwhile for some of us to argue over the band.
  - cwkoss 5y ago
    Yes, you have correctly identified the prerequisite societal change that must be made before passing gun control legislation that would infringe this hypothetical person's access to firearms. It is frustrating to frequently see white suburbanites with a savior complex rallying for gun control while never addressing the reasons why gun ownership rates are higher in underserved and rural communities: because the police do not adequately protect these populations. That political energy would be much better spent on fixing the root of the problem rather than they symptom of it.

28 points by exolymph 5y ago

I recently moved to CT, and decided to get a firearms permit. CT law is relatively restrictive in the wake of Sandy Hook, and one is now required to take a firearms safety course before submitting the paperwork. There were about 30 of us altogether: roughly 50% men and 50% women, 7-10 Black classmates, 2 East-Asians, a handful (maybe 5?) Latinos, and the rest White. Towards the end of the day, I got to talking with some classmates, and finally with one of the instructors. After a bit of chit-chat, I mentioned that I was surprised to see so many ostensibly different people in a gun club. He replied that the classroom composition was more or less representative of the gun club's constituents. After pressing him a bit, he conceded that it was representative of those doing firearm certifications, but only marginally more diverse than the club's membership. After a bit more chit-chat, he told me he was a lifelong democrat. Further, he said, "About 10% of the members here are crazy Trump-voting nutjobs, but they're kind. About 50% of them are traditional republicans, who didn't tell me who they voted for. And the remaining 40% either told me they were Democrats or independents, or we never talked politics." I told him I was very surprised by all of this, and he told me it was recent. In his estimation, it all started in 2016. I lived abroad from 2010 to 2020, and this is not how I remember things. I don't know what conclusion to draw from this, but it seems like something is very much afoot.

ergot_vacation 5y ago
People no longer trust their government, on a fundamental level. There has always been some degree of skepticism, but now trust has broken down completely. Politicians were always seen as crooked, but they were at least somewhat capable of "keeping the lights on." Increasingly in recent years, it has become clear they can barely even do this anymore. Add to this an accompanying complete breakdown in trust for institutions like the media and academia, and you have half your answer. The other half is that shit's bad. Corona, soaring wealth inequality, tumbling quality of physical goods and art/entertainment. Everything feels like it's a hollowed out facade now, whether it's the job you're working, the food you're buying, or the movie you're watching. Put these two together, and you get a population that is being forced to realize The End is coming. Or at least A end. Chaos and upheaval is at hand, and the government might not be able (or interested in) protecting you. In such a circumstance, buying a gun and learning to use it is one of many obvious responses.
- omginternets 5y ago
  It seems like you're responding to my last sentence, and yeah, sure. I didn't want to get into the "why" because it's hard to move past superficial/general statements like this (though you and I are mostly in agreement). What's less clear to me is exactly where this is all headed.
- ElViajero 5y ago
  > People no longer trust their government, on a fundamental level. > The End is coming. > Chaos and upheaval is at hand, Stop your horses cowboy. There is a big difference between political disillusion and "The End of the Times". The USA is a highly developed country, a flawed one, but with many resources to fix the current situation. > buying a gun and learning to use it is one of many obvious responses. To move to another country would be the real obvious response if you expect yours to go into chaos. To buy a gun and expect something positive out of it seems quite a Hollywood-inspired disillusion.
  - philwelch 5y ago
    > To move to another country would be the real obvious response if you expect yours to go into chaos. Which country would you recommend?
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      Switzerland seems pretty sane, at least from a distance.
  - indrax 5y ago
    Emigration is not a realistic option for most people, and it becomes harder as the need becomes more obvious.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

et2o 5y ago

Well, this certainly transcends traditional liberal vs. conservative dogmas.

philwelch 5y ago
It's less surprising from within the RKBA community than it might seem from the outside, especially among the younger generations.

vgeek 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act Will this type of legislation make a resurgence as a result?

cwkoss 5y ago

The second amendment is most important for communities where police are failing in their role of serving and protecting. Cops don't have a duty to protect or a requirement to respond to calls promptly. Historically and currently, the police provide less protection to racial minorities. (Including some examples where being armed has prevented violence by police against racial minorities - guns arguably played a significant role in achieving black suffrage) I'm a privileged white dude who doesn't feel the need to own a gun, but I strongly believe we must balance gun control measures to ensure that a black single mother with reasonable fears of violence living in an underserved community can protect her own family with a gun when that is effectively her only option.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> strongly believe we must balance gun control measures to ensure that a black single mother with reasonable fears of violence living in an underserved community can protect her own family with a gun when that is effectively her only option. I strongly believe that if we have underserved communities where black single mothers reasonably fear that a gun is effectively their only option to protect their family from violence, we need to fix that problem and discussing any other response to that situatiin is analogous to debating the set list for the band on the _RMS Titanic_ in terms of actually solving problems.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Yes, we need to fix that problem. Absolutely. But when is that going to happen? Not today, and probably not this year. In the meantime, that black single mother is out there, needing to protect herself and her children. It's not either/or.
- thomastjeffery 5y ago
  If we can save the Titanic, maybe it's worthwhile for some of us to argue over the band.
- cwkoss 5y ago
  Yes, you have correctly identified the prerequisite societal change that must be made before passing gun control legislation that would infringe this hypothetical person's access to firearms. It is frustrating to frequently see white suburbanites with a savior complex rallying for gun control while never addressing the reasons why gun ownership rates are higher in underserved and rural communities: because the police do not adequately protect these populations. That political energy would be much better spent on fixing the root of the problem rather than they symptom of it.