5 ms·

Sorry, I don't buy this concept that hordes of (or any, for that matter) predatory trans women are queuing up for the chance to prowl round changing rooms. Do y

Sorry, I don't buy this concept that hordes of (or any, for that matter) predatory trans women are queuing up for the chance to prowl round changing rooms. Do you, really? Say you're right. What stops them sneaking in right now? It's not like there are mandatory ID checks at the entrance.

long_time_gone 5y ago
This is what I don't understand. How many examples are there of the horrible ills these bathroom bills will "solve"? Trans people exist today, they use bathrooms, where are the problems?
- worik 5y ago
  Use the bathroom you are comfortable using. Gendered bathrooms are a concrete expression of the fact that it is gender that is the major fault line through our society. The fact we need them is a damming indictment on our society (on men probably)
- delecti 5y ago
  Virtually none. In fact trans people are vastly more likely to be victims of the sorts of things that the people pushing those policies argue those bills are meant to prevent.
thereddaikon 5y ago
That's a strawman. Without proof to the contrary the assumption should be that the trans population has a similar proportion of rapists as any other does. Since its been well established that essentially all rape no matter who is raping who goes under reported it is completely rational for women to be just as fearful as they would with any other stranger.
- notahacker 5y ago
  The question isn't whether women should assume that a transperson is less likely to rape them than any other stranger. That's not what "bathroom bills" are about. The question is whether bathroom bills forcing transpeople who wish to not break the law (potential rapists are obviously not part of this set...) into men's bathrooms, and a surrounding climate of generalised hostility towards anyone with any remotely masculine element of their physique or style in women's bathrooms actually meaningfully reduces the risk of rape, or just makes the environment more intimidating for everyone.
- ENIanDEM 5y ago
  It's literally in response to the posit that trans women would rape strangers in changing rooms. I've tried to make it as far from a strawman as possible by arguing against even a single occurrence of that happening. Cis women can perpetuate rape. Should we ban them from changing rooms too? How far through the looking glass does this have to go?!
- worik 5y ago
  > That's a strawman. It is a dessicated vegetative hominoid surely?
meragrin_ 5y ago
> predatory trans women How about predatory men pretending to be trans-women?
- ENIanDEM 5y ago
  Can we please return to some semblance of reality?
  - throwaway384028 5y ago
    In a thread related to women thinking they're men and men thinking they're women
  - meragrin_ 5y ago
    The reality is predatory men already invade women's restrooms for perverted reasons. You don't think they would not be emboldened by being able to shame people for being transphobic to increase their chances of getting away with whatever they are doing?
- eropple 5y ago
  If you're going to hypothesize, doesn't it obligate you to substantiate the claim? Are predatory men pretending to be transwomen a problem on any statistically noticeable level?
  - meragrin_ 5y ago
    I'm not hypothesizing anything. I'm pointing out that "someone who's biologically male in the women's room" doesn't have to mean "predatory trans-woman" but could be "predatory man pretending to be trans".
    - eropple 5y ago
      And I'm asking you, when you are just-pointing-out, if it's actually happening in a way that is statistically recognizable and thus a contribution to the discourse in question, or if it's not.

long_time_gone 5y ago

This is what I don't understand. How many examples are there of the horrible ills these bathroom bills will "solve"? Trans people exist today, they use bathrooms, where are the problems?

worik 5y ago
Use the bathroom you are comfortable using. Gendered bathrooms are a concrete expression of the fact that it is gender that is the major fault line through our society. The fact we need them is a damming indictment on our society (on men probably)
delecti 5y ago
Virtually none. In fact trans people are vastly more likely to be victims of the sorts of things that the people pushing those policies argue those bills are meant to prevent.

thereddaikon 5y ago

That's a strawman. Without proof to the contrary the assumption should be that the trans population has a similar proportion of rapists as any other does. Since its been well established that essentially all rape no matter who is raping who goes under reported it is completely rational for women to be just as fearful as they would with any other stranger.

notahacker 5y ago
The question isn't whether women should assume that a transperson is less likely to rape them than any other stranger. That's not what "bathroom bills" are about. The question is whether bathroom bills forcing transpeople who wish to not break the law (potential rapists are obviously not part of this set...) into men's bathrooms, and a surrounding climate of generalised hostility towards anyone with any remotely masculine element of their physique or style in women's bathrooms actually meaningfully reduces the risk of rape, or just makes the environment more intimidating for everyone.
ENIanDEM 5y ago
It's literally in response to the posit that trans women would rape strangers in changing rooms. I've tried to make it as far from a strawman as possible by arguing against even a single occurrence of that happening. Cis women can perpetuate rape. Should we ban them from changing rooms too? How far through the looking glass does this have to go?!
worik 5y ago
> That's a strawman. It is a dessicated vegetative hominoid surely?

meragrin_ 5y ago

> predatory trans women How about predatory men pretending to be trans-women?

ENIanDEM 5y ago
Can we please return to some semblance of reality?
- throwaway384028 5y ago
  In a thread related to women thinking they're men and men thinking they're women
- meragrin_ 5y ago
  The reality is predatory men already invade women's restrooms for perverted reasons. You don't think they would not be emboldened by being able to shame people for being transphobic to increase their chances of getting away with whatever they are doing?
eropple 5y ago
If you're going to hypothesize, doesn't it obligate you to substantiate the claim? Are predatory men pretending to be transwomen a problem on any statistically noticeable level?
- meragrin_ 5y ago
  I'm not hypothesizing anything. I'm pointing out that "someone who's biologically male in the women's room" doesn't have to mean "predatory trans-woman" but could be "predatory man pretending to be trans".
  - eropple 5y ago
    And I'm asking you, when you are just-pointing-out, if it's actually happening in a way that is statistically recognizable and thus a contribution to the discourse in question, or if it's not.