3 ms·

No, you don't have to place them in solitary confinement. You can place them with other trans-women. Men are housed with men in jails. Yes, sometimes they comm

No, you don't have to place them in solitary confinement. You can place them with other trans-women. Men are housed with men in jails. Yes, sometimes they commit violence against each other, including rape. But we don't put all men in solitary confinement.

Latty 5y ago
This begs the question of why it is acceptable for men and trans women to be raped, but unacceptable for cis women to be raped? There is no justification for accepting any prison rape—or, for that matter, sexual assault, which cis women are entirely capable of. (And, to be clear, sexual assault is not inherently a lesser crime than rape, rape is just a specific form of sexual assault, and depending on jurisdiction, may be defined in such a way as a cis woman can be a rapist).
- MyHypatia 5y ago
  It is not acceptable for men nor trans-women nor cis-women nor anyone to be raped in prison. My comment does not condone rape. If you think that all men and all trans-women should have separate cells to prevent this possibility, I think that could be a positive step forward. I do not think that subjecting cis-women to the fear of rape is a positive step forward.
  - nepeckman 5y ago
    There is no evidence that trans women are more a threat to cis women than cis women are to each other. If a cis women is afraid of being assaulted by a trans women, that is a fear rooted in bigotry, not reality. If the individual in question is a convicted rapist, than precautions should be taken regardless of that persons genitals or gender to make sure they dont assault anyone else. Prison rape is horrific and needs to be addressed, and concern trolling about trans women doesnt help anyone and does hurt public perception of trans women.
    - MyHypatia 5y ago
      The fear of being impregnated from a sexual assault is not rooted in bigotry. It places cis-women in a very uncomfortable position of having to birth and raise a child created from sexual assault or have an abortion. This is not concern trolling. It is a very real fear. Prison rape is horrific for everyone, not just cis-women. It is horrific for men and trans-men and trans-women as well. Housing cis-women with intact trans-women does not solve or address the prison rape problem.
      - nepeckman 5y ago
        > It places cis-women in a very uncomfortable position of having to birth and raise a child created from sexual assault or have an abortion. I want to be very clear: I do not want this to happen. I don't want any woman to be raped, especially not impregnated as well. But my point still stands: this does not happen on any sort of regular basis. I do not think you're arguing in bad faith here, and I hope you see that I'm not either. Segregating trans women from cis women does nothing to protect cis women. Implementing this segregation across the prison system would not impact the occurrence of prison rape by half a percent. But by insisting that trans women are a threat to cis women, you are hurting trans women. You are playing into and amplifying a very popular narrative in our society that trans women are deceptive, dangerous predators. And this leads to legislation that harms the whole trans community.
    - rmah 5y ago
      It turns out there is evidence... plank_time wrote: In the UK prisons, transgender women sexually assault women 5x more than cis women sexually assault women. https://archive.is/iYD5T https://archive.is/iYD5T Haven't dug into it to see how strong that evidence is, but to say none seems incorrect.
      - nepeckman 5y ago
        It is actually incorrect, I just responded to that comment. See below: If you read the article you linked, you will find that is not true. From the article: "between 2016 and 2020, there were seven sexual assaults against females in women's prisons by trans women." 7 assaults in 4 years is not 5x more. If you are referring to the statistic that "trans inmates are 1% of the population and commit 5.6% of the assaults", you will find that the trans inmates in question are actually trans men being incorrectly housed in women's prisons.
  - Latty 5y ago
    Then why did you present it as a zero-sum game where you were quite willing to suggest putting trans-women into a situation you find unconscionable for cis-women? You have thoroughly proved the original poster's point: TERF talking points are damaging. You bought one up, defending it as "reasonable", but when pressed you accept that there is a preferable solution that doesn't involve throwing trans people under the bus. The talking point is there to push a narrative that trans people are dangerous, just as was done with gay people before. It is designed to imply that we must choose between women's rights and trans people's rights, which is a false dichotomy.

Latty 5y ago

This begs the question of why it is acceptable for men and trans women to be raped, but unacceptable for cis women to be raped? There is no justification for accepting any prison rape—or, for that matter, sexual assault, which cis women are entirely capable of. (And, to be clear, sexual assault is not inherently a lesser crime than rape, rape is just a specific form of sexual assault, and depending on jurisdiction, may be defined in such a way as a cis woman can be a rapist).

MyHypatia 5y ago
It is not acceptable for men nor trans-women nor cis-women nor anyone to be raped in prison. My comment does not condone rape. If you think that all men and all trans-women should have separate cells to prevent this possibility, I think that could be a positive step forward. I do not think that subjecting cis-women to the fear of rape is a positive step forward.
- nepeckman 5y ago
  There is no evidence that trans women are more a threat to cis women than cis women are to each other. If a cis women is afraid of being assaulted by a trans women, that is a fear rooted in bigotry, not reality. If the individual in question is a convicted rapist, than precautions should be taken regardless of that persons genitals or gender to make sure they dont assault anyone else. Prison rape is horrific and needs to be addressed, and concern trolling about trans women doesnt help anyone and does hurt public perception of trans women.
  - MyHypatia 5y ago
    The fear of being impregnated from a sexual assault is not rooted in bigotry. It places cis-women in a very uncomfortable position of having to birth and raise a child created from sexual assault or have an abortion. This is not concern trolling. It is a very real fear. Prison rape is horrific for everyone, not just cis-women. It is horrific for men and trans-men and trans-women as well. Housing cis-women with intact trans-women does not solve or address the prison rape problem.
    - nepeckman 5y ago
      > It places cis-women in a very uncomfortable position of having to birth and raise a child created from sexual assault or have an abortion. I want to be very clear: I do not want this to happen. I don't want any woman to be raped, especially not impregnated as well. But my point still stands: this does not happen on any sort of regular basis. I do not think you're arguing in bad faith here, and I hope you see that I'm not either. Segregating trans women from cis women does nothing to protect cis women. Implementing this segregation across the prison system would not impact the occurrence of prison rape by half a percent. But by insisting that trans women are a threat to cis women, you are hurting trans women. You are playing into and amplifying a very popular narrative in our society that trans women are deceptive, dangerous predators. And this leads to legislation that harms the whole trans community.
  - rmah 5y ago
    It turns out there is evidence... plank_time wrote: In the UK prisons, transgender women sexually assault women 5x more than cis women sexually assault women. https://archive.is/iYD5T https://archive.is/iYD5T Haven't dug into it to see how strong that evidence is, but to say none seems incorrect.
    - nepeckman 5y ago
      It is actually incorrect, I just responded to that comment. See below: If you read the article you linked, you will find that is not true. From the article: "between 2016 and 2020, there were seven sexual assaults against females in women's prisons by trans women." 7 assaults in 4 years is not 5x more. If you are referring to the statistic that "trans inmates are 1% of the population and commit 5.6% of the assaults", you will find that the trans inmates in question are actually trans men being incorrectly housed in women's prisons.
- Latty 5y ago
  Then why did you present it as a zero-sum game where you were quite willing to suggest putting trans-women into a situation you find unconscionable for cis-women? You have thoroughly proved the original poster's point: TERF talking points are damaging. You bought one up, defending it as "reasonable", but when pressed you accept that there is a preferable solution that doesn't involve throwing trans people under the bus. The talking point is there to push a narrative that trans people are dangerous, just as was done with gay people before. It is designed to imply that we must choose between women's rights and trans people's rights, which is a false dichotomy.