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> Women still on average make less than men. That's true, but as I understand it, it's not because of discrimination but because of different choices. https:/

• DoreenMichele 5y ago
  That boils down to an excuse at best and a justification at worst. Historically, teachers made relatively good pay and were respected. That was when it was a mostly male profession. That changed when it became a mostly female profession. Conversely, programing was originally a more female dominated profession and not well paid nor respected. Now it is a male profession and very well paid. Humans tend to pay men better for the same work. We come up with myriad explanations for the phenomenon but it's stubbornly persistent. I think it's more complicated than "Women just entirely voluntarily choose something else."
  • epicureanideal 5y ago
    > That boils down to am excuse at best and a justification at worst. It's neither. It's a reason, an explanation. > I think it's more complicated than "Women just entirely voluntarily choose something else." From what I understand, the research shows that isn't the case. Basically all of the earning gap is explained by choices, not discrimination. > Historically, teachers made relatively good pay and were respected. That was when it was a mostly male profession. That changed when it became a mostly female profession. Correlation is not causation though. I know you know that, but just stating it for others that are reading this.
    • esyir 5y ago
      > Historically, teachers made relatively good pay and were respected. That was when it was a mostly male profession. That changed when it became a mostly female profession. The alternative explanation can be this: Societal expectations is that the resource provision is core to male value. This can be observed on the disproportionate impact of wealth on relationship attractiveness between the genders [1], men generally benefit more from status than women, and women tend to benefit more from attractiveness than men [2].- With incentives like this, I find it unsurprising that men are more likely to chase status. It's also a cleaner model, with clearer causal lines than "society is built around paying women less". [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8531056/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8531056/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6437035/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6437035/
  • rowanG077 5y ago
    Programming then and programming now are as comparable of a job as a black smith forging utensils and a CNC operator making tools.
  • esyir 5y ago
    >Humans tend to pay men better for the same work. We come up with myriad explanations for the phenomenon but it's stubbornly persistent. Citation needed on this one, particularly on the "same work" section. It's my understanding that studies that followed up on the initial gender wage gap studies found that the intial gap shrinks drastically once the data was controlled for type of work (the same work assumption you made), as well as for the number of hours worked across a given time period.
  • embeddTrway690 5y ago
    Woke logic lol. > Historically, teachers made relatively good pay and were respected. That was when it was a mostly male profession. Also education was a privilege back then. Teachers were less, students were less. Teachers were expected to be some sort of scholars. It's basic supply and demand. > Conversely, programing was originally a more female dominated profession and not well paid nor respected. It was much more menial and repetitive work than today's programming, more comparable to accounting. Also, programming wasn't in present demand back then. Personal computers were not a thing.