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>Its not clear to me why it is permissible for schools to ever punish children for nonviolent speech in the united states, One principle used to restrict free
by jasode 5y ago
>Its not clear to me why it is permissible for schools to ever punish children for nonviolent speech in the united states,
One principle used to restrict free speech on school campus is about being "disruptive" to the class. E.g. Public schools banned kids from wearing the Confederate flag on shirts because they were "disruptive". In some cases, the free speech advocates fought the rule and yet the ban was upheld by courts even on appeal:
https://www.google.com/search?q=confederate+shirt+banned+public+school https://www.google.com/search?q=confederate+shirt+banned+pub...
- willcipriano 5y agoI can see kicking them out of school and removing the compulsory requirement that they attend, but the "you must go here, and while here this speech is illegal" doesn't line up with my reading of the first amendment. If I was king I'd declare the whole country a school where criticism of me is banned.
- neom 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independe... In Tinker the supreme court ruled that schools can limit SOME speech ON/around school premises under narrow circumstances. However, in this case, Mahanoy Area School District v. B.L. - B.L. was not on school grounds at the time, simply references school. The Defence in Mahanoy vs B.L. actually tried to muddle in the standard test under Tinker of "substantial disruption" to this case, but the court basically told them to kick rocks on that.
- aidenn0 5y agoCurrently, you are required to attend a school, but are not required to attend a public school. On top of that, the speech is absolutely not illegal. You cannot face criminal sanctions for the speech, just school related discipline.
- willcipriano 5y agoWhat is detention if not the state detaining you?
- aidenn0 5y agoIf you withdraw from the school, you are free from detention. All punishments at a school that are short of expulsion are enforced primarily with the threat of expulsion. There are truancy laws, and these vary greatly from state to state. However, not showing up for detention does not typically make one a truant; only being absent during regular hours.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- potatoz2 5y agoI'm more surprised you think that compulsion has an impact on whether the first amendment protects you or not: no one is forcing you to be in any given public square, yet the first amendment protects you while there. On the flip side, it's compulsory for you to show up to jury duty, yet your freedom of speech is severely limited in that case. "Free speech if and only if you leave" is not really free speech, is it?
- willcipriano 5y agoGood point. Another question is forcing someone to go somewhere and work day in and day out without convicting them of a crime is acceptable under the 13th amendment but I didn't want to muddy the waters too much.
- threatofrain 5y agoChildren aren't forced to be in any particular school. You can also choose home schooling or private school.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoIt varies by state and private school costs money some people don't have and then there are logistics. School choice only works if it doesn't destroy your life to make some other choice. Otherwise it's not really a meaningful choice.