6 ms·

Then, for you, keep using Apple's store. For the rest of us, we'd like to shop at other stores too.

simonh 5y ago
That doesn’t work because Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc would move to side loading or a freedom store. To use those apps I’d have to go outside the App Store. More stores might be more choice for you, but it would take away the benefits to me of apps having to go through Apple App Store review to get on my phone. Finally, the thing is users don’t always want all these choices. Really. That’s why the Play Store dominates on Android. Consolidation and simplicity benefits users. I know that creates monopoly issues and Apple should be held accountable, but the concerns of users like me need to be addressed. A Freedom Store with loose controls on iOS, but with Google apps, Facebook, Spotify, Fortnite, probably all the MS apps as well, all as exclusives would coerce users into using two different stores and cripple privacy accountability for iOS users like me.
- passivate 5y ago
  >More stores might be more choice for you, but it would take away the benefits to me of apps having to go through Apple App Store review to get on my phone. Fair enough, can you give us a few of those benefits so we can have a discussion? AFAIK, Apple's privacy controls are built into the OS, so you'd still have those.
  - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
    The article goes into detail about this from a security perspective. From a user experience perspective, Apple’s ethos is that of a consistent, clean look and feel for everything in the ecosystem. Additionally, from the user experience perspective, Apple’s ethos is for custom development to maintain adherence to the stated user experience goals of Apple’s own in-house development.
    - brazzledazzle 5y ago
      They don’t enforce a clean look and feel. There are endless ugly apps with bizarre UI and UX.
      - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
        > Apple customers place a high value on products that are simple, refined, innovative, and easy to use, and that’s what we want to see on the App Store. Coming up with a great design is up to you, but the following are minimum standards for approval to the App Store. https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#design https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#des...
- orangecat 5y ago
  That doesn’t work because Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc would move to side loading or a freedom store. And yet: users don’t always want all these choices. Really. That’s why the Play Store dominates on Android.
  - simonh 5y ago
    I addressed this already.
- mthoms 5y ago
  >That doesn’t work because Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc would move to side loading or a freedom store. To use those apps I’d have to go outside the App Store. I just hear this claim touted a lot around HN. I'm trying to determine if it's FUD by examining the evidence. Do you have any examples that fit this criteria? That is, can you name any modestly popular apps that moved from the App Store on Android to a sideload-only model?
  - simonh 5y ago
    To avoid privacy controls on the Play Store? No, because the play store is run by Google who don’t give half a crap about privacy.
    - mthoms 5y ago
      Facebook abandoning the App Store just to remove the privacy warning labels would be corporate suicide. They'd just be trading one set of scaring warning labels for another (because side loading would certainly have scary labels). And they'd have way less exposure to new customers. The iOS built in controls would still be the same. There just isn't a compelling case for a major app to go sideload-only. This entire line of reasoning smells like FUD. Personally, I would prefer just one App Store with Apple compromising in other ways. Lower fees, consistent application of the rules, and proper support for PWA's. How do you feel about that?
  - valparaiso 5y ago
    Fortnite was launched outside of Play Store. You needed to firstly sideload Epic Games Store from their website and then download and install Fortnite. People got mad because they couldn’t find Fortnite on Play Store and started searching on the web. Malware bad boys created a lot of fake pages with malicious Fortnite APK files which in result started stealing personal and finance data. Tim Sweeney failed with that idea and moved to Play Store, but got mad since Google forbids you to bypass Google Billing in games. That’s why his Fortnite was removed from Play Store after malicious hotpatch with their payment system. Clear example how sideloaing failed.
- moondev 5y ago
  That hasn't happened on Android, which allows side-loading. What makes you think it would be any different on iOS?
  - simonh 5y ago
    Google’s Play Store is a ‘freedom store’ because Google doesn’t give a crap about privacy controls and runs it as a Wild West free for all. It’s precisely because Google does not curate in the way that Apple does, in fact nobody else does this anywhere near to the same extent, that the App Store is so valuable to me.
- mr_toad 5y ago
  > That doesn’t work because Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc would move to side loading or a freedom store. I wouldn’t worry about Facebook and Google. Ad vendors will want their wares on as many platforms as possible. It’s the rent-seekers who want to milk their IP for every last cent that are most likely to go down the ‘freedom store route’. Disney. Sony. And basically every large game company.

That doesn’t work because Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc would move to side loading or a freedom store. To use those apps I’d have to go outside the App Store. More stores might be more choice for you, but it would take away the benefits to me of apps having to go through Apple App Store review to get on my phone. Finally, the thing is users don’t always want all these choices. Really. That’s why the Play Store dominates on Android. Consolidation and simplicity benefits users. I know that creates monopoly issues and Apple should be held accountable, but the concerns of users like me need to be addressed. A Freedom Store with loose controls on iOS, but with Google apps, Facebook, Spotify, Fortnite, probably all the MS apps as well, all as exclusives would coerce users into using two different stores and cripple privacy accountability for iOS users like me.

passivate 5y ago
>More stores might be more choice for you, but it would take away the benefits to me of apps having to go through Apple App Store review to get on my phone. Fair enough, can you give us a few of those benefits so we can have a discussion? AFAIK, Apple's privacy controls are built into the OS, so you'd still have those.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
  The article goes into detail about this from a security perspective. From a user experience perspective, Apple’s ethos is that of a consistent, clean look and feel for everything in the ecosystem. Additionally, from the user experience perspective, Apple’s ethos is for custom development to maintain adherence to the stated user experience goals of Apple’s own in-house development.
  - brazzledazzle 5y ago
    They don’t enforce a clean look and feel. There are endless ugly apps with bizarre UI and UX.
    - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
      > Apple customers place a high value on products that are simple, refined, innovative, and easy to use, and that’s what we want to see on the App Store. Coming up with a great design is up to you, but the following are minimum standards for approval to the App Store. https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#design https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#des...
orangecat 5y ago
That doesn’t work because Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc would move to side loading or a freedom store. And yet: users don’t always want all these choices. Really. That’s why the Play Store dominates on Android.
- simonh 5y ago
  I addressed this already.
mthoms 5y ago
>That doesn’t work because Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc would move to side loading or a freedom store. To use those apps I’d have to go outside the App Store. I just hear this claim touted a lot around HN. I'm trying to determine if it's FUD by examining the evidence. Do you have any examples that fit this criteria? That is, can you name any modestly popular apps that moved from the App Store on Android to a sideload-only model?
- simonh 5y ago
  To avoid privacy controls on the Play Store? No, because the play store is run by Google who don’t give half a crap about privacy.
  - mthoms 5y ago
    Facebook abandoning the App Store just to remove the privacy warning labels would be corporate suicide. They'd just be trading one set of scaring warning labels for another (because side loading would certainly have scary labels). And they'd have way less exposure to new customers. The iOS built in controls would still be the same. There just isn't a compelling case for a major app to go sideload-only. This entire line of reasoning smells like FUD. Personally, I would prefer just one App Store with Apple compromising in other ways. Lower fees, consistent application of the rules, and proper support for PWA's. How do you feel about that?
- valparaiso 5y ago
  Fortnite was launched outside of Play Store. You needed to firstly sideload Epic Games Store from their website and then download and install Fortnite. People got mad because they couldn’t find Fortnite on Play Store and started searching on the web. Malware bad boys created a lot of fake pages with malicious Fortnite APK files which in result started stealing personal and finance data. Tim Sweeney failed with that idea and moved to Play Store, but got mad since Google forbids you to bypass Google Billing in games. That’s why his Fortnite was removed from Play Store after malicious hotpatch with their payment system. Clear example how sideloaing failed.
moondev 5y ago
That hasn't happened on Android, which allows side-loading. What makes you think it would be any different on iOS?
- simonh 5y ago
  Google’s Play Store is a ‘freedom store’ because Google doesn’t give a crap about privacy controls and runs it as a Wild West free for all. It’s precisely because Google does not curate in the way that Apple does, in fact nobody else does this anywhere near to the same extent, that the App Store is so valuable to me.
mr_toad 5y ago
> That doesn’t work because Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc would move to side loading or a freedom store. I wouldn’t worry about Facebook and Google. Ad vendors will want their wares on as many platforms as possible. It’s the rent-seekers who want to milk their IP for every last cent that are most likely to go down the ‘freedom store route’. Disney. Sony. And basically every large game company.