4 ms·

The point of these laws is to sacrifice honest, voluntary, consensual prostitution in order to be able to prosecute and suppress involuntary, exploitative prost

The point of these laws is to sacrifice honest, voluntary, consensual prostitution in order to be able to prosecute and suppress involuntary, exploitative prostitution. While I guess it would be preferable the prosecutors would use some more discretion to actually go after cases of clearer exploitation, I still think the situation in Sweden is preferable to that here in Germany, where forced prostitution is blooming in the shadow of a largely legalized sex trade. It is near impossible for police to tell if prostitutes are being coerced. And a large part of all prostitutes probably are coerced or exploited, to some extent, even if the situation is more complicated (like drugs, homelessness, psychiatric issues etc).

camillomiller 5y ago
This is a great point for fully legalized prostitution, not just half-assed solutions like “FKK spas” and such.
- biztos 5y ago
  “FKK” is German for “nudist/naturist” and means Free Body Culture, in case anyone was wondering. Most spas in Germany expect everyone to be naked, but don’t involve anything sexual at all. Large scale brothels use the term as a transparently disingenuous way of pretending the sex isn’t part of the business. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freikörperkultur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freikörperkultur
- vmception 5y ago
  How are FKK spas (the ones listed as brothels on google maps) half assed solutions for legalized prostitution, they are brothels grander than anything seen on Game of Thrones Their sites are pretty clear about what they are and they are the registered institutions for that sex trade that the registered sex workers work in, if their area requires them to operate out of a brothel.
username90 5y ago
Can't you say that buying prostitution is illegal unless you have registered with authorities as a prostitute? That way it is really hard to force people since you'd have to force them through the entire registration process, and police can just do routine checks to see if people are properly registered.
- bayesian_horse 5y ago
  I doubt that it would be possible to screen trafficked women from registration. Then it would be a lot of work for the police to actually "just do routine checks", just like they don't check most businesses for illegal immigrant workers or whatever. Also, they wouldn't know where to look, because brothels would just open up and nobody would tell them, because the johns wouldn't know how to verify all the documentation. Just as with firearms in the US: the more potentially legal prostitution there is, the harder it is to sniff out the illegal ones, even when hiding in plain sight. In Germany we have exactly that situation. Prostitution is legal, though I am not sure about exactly what registration is required. It is a bloody mess, because it is assumed that forced prostitution is now rampant in Germany, to the point that men from other countries travel over the border just for the brothels...
  - miracle2k 5y ago
    Registration is now required in Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitutes_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitutes_Protection_Act). > It is a bloody mess, because it is assumed that forced prostitution is now rampant in Germany, to the point that men from other countries travel over the border just for the brothels... They aren't traveling there because the sex workers are practicing under force. If Germany has a reputation it is because of its brothels with a visible presence in the public sphere. It is also a rich country, centrally located, and organized brothels allow woman from poorer European countries to outsource a lot of difficult work; security, housing, marketing. Renting an apartment in Italy, advertising on the local websites, being familiar with the laws, compounded by the language barrier, is much higher-effort. The trafficking narrative is always very thing on evidence. It is certainly assumed that there is a lot of trafficking in popular imagination though, mainly due to successful activism that seeks to exaggerate the problem in order to further the goal of outlawing sex work. This activism is, as always, the fusion of paternalism, the ring-fencing of the decent from the morally subversive, and radical feminist thought, and human trafficking is mostly a convenient public lever. You have to look no further then the United States, where police departments routinely have brain-dead local press disseminate how they are saving human trafficking victims in various raids, but half of which will face criminal charges for prostitution, and the other half will be lucky enough to be forced into mandatory diversion programs to avoid charges.

camillomiller 5y ago

This is a great point for fully legalized prostitution, not just half-assed solutions like “FKK spas” and such.

biztos 5y ago
“FKK” is German for “nudist/naturist” and means Free Body Culture, in case anyone was wondering. Most spas in Germany expect everyone to be naked, but don’t involve anything sexual at all. Large scale brothels use the term as a transparently disingenuous way of pretending the sex isn’t part of the business. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freikörperkultur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freikörperkultur
vmception 5y ago
How are FKK spas (the ones listed as brothels on google maps) half assed solutions for legalized prostitution, they are brothels grander than anything seen on Game of Thrones Their sites are pretty clear about what they are and they are the registered institutions for that sex trade that the registered sex workers work in, if their area requires them to operate out of a brothel.

username90 5y ago

Can't you say that buying prostitution is illegal unless you have registered with authorities as a prostitute? That way it is really hard to force people since you'd have to force them through the entire registration process, and police can just do routine checks to see if people are properly registered.

bayesian_horse 5y ago
I doubt that it would be possible to screen trafficked women from registration. Then it would be a lot of work for the police to actually "just do routine checks", just like they don't check most businesses for illegal immigrant workers or whatever. Also, they wouldn't know where to look, because brothels would just open up and nobody would tell them, because the johns wouldn't know how to verify all the documentation. Just as with firearms in the US: the more potentially legal prostitution there is, the harder it is to sniff out the illegal ones, even when hiding in plain sight. In Germany we have exactly that situation. Prostitution is legal, though I am not sure about exactly what registration is required. It is a bloody mess, because it is assumed that forced prostitution is now rampant in Germany, to the point that men from other countries travel over the border just for the brothels...
- miracle2k 5y ago
  Registration is now required in Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitutes_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitutes_Protection_Act). > It is a bloody mess, because it is assumed that forced prostitution is now rampant in Germany, to the point that men from other countries travel over the border just for the brothels... They aren't traveling there because the sex workers are practicing under force. If Germany has a reputation it is because of its brothels with a visible presence in the public sphere. It is also a rich country, centrally located, and organized brothels allow woman from poorer European countries to outsource a lot of difficult work; security, housing, marketing. Renting an apartment in Italy, advertising on the local websites, being familiar with the laws, compounded by the language barrier, is much higher-effort. The trafficking narrative is always very thing on evidence. It is certainly assumed that there is a lot of trafficking in popular imagination though, mainly due to successful activism that seeks to exaggerate the problem in order to further the goal of outlawing sex work. This activism is, as always, the fusion of paternalism, the ring-fencing of the decent from the morally subversive, and radical feminist thought, and human trafficking is mostly a convenient public lever. You have to look no further then the United States, where police departments routinely have brain-dead local press disseminate how they are saving human trafficking victims in various raids, but half of which will face criminal charges for prostitution, and the other half will be lucky enough to be forced into mandatory diversion programs to avoid charges.