9 ms·

The End of Marae – my attempt to build the AR cloud

smoldesu 5y ago
> As the next paradigm of human-computer interaction, the emerging AR Cloud will fundamentally change the way we live, play, learn, and work. Tangent: why is AR so attractive to people? I've had VR since the first Oculus Quest came out, so I definitely understand the value in a good spatial experience. I've never had the desire for that immersion to lessen so I can start working with holographic oversight. Much like transparent displays, I think the idea of AR is a lot cooler than it will work in practice. It's fitting function to form, which is the wrong way to approach a problem like this.
- psyc 5y ago
  I admit I'm always puzzled by this as well, and can't help feeling (perhaps unfairly) that it's like preferring vinyl. Every VR thread I've ever seen has a lot of "VR is dead because of the resolution and it makes people sick, but AR! AR is endless possibilities!" Like, I think augmenting the world is cool. But going to an imaginary world is much cooler. Maybe it's just that I'm an escapist by nature, and other people are more adult and practical.
  - alonmower 5y ago
    AR will replace your phone VR could replace your TV
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Correction: VR will replace your TV AR could replace your phone
- kybernetikos 5y ago
  I think it's because VR can give you super powers in an imaginary world while AR can give you super powers in the real world.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    What experiences does AR enable that are otherwise not possible with VR/traditional displays?
    - psyc 5y ago
      Walking around the city and seeing everyone's sins displayed above their heads.
    - ve55 5y ago
      To give a very short answer: getting most people to purchase and commonly use a VR headset is much more difficult than getting them to purchase a light set of glasses that they can wear and use anywhere with ease. There's many more applications as well, but there is absurd potential in it still imo.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        Counterpoint: The Oculus Quest 2 costs $300, and I have yet to see a headset come close to it's level of adoption, let alone it's price. AR will be wildly expensive for the foreseeable future, and by the time we've fully democratized it there will be some new computing paradigm right around the corner. Sure, more people will likely prefer AR to VR in terms of comfort, but you need to manage your expectations. A "light set of glasses" isn't going to come within spitting distance of the resolution, FOV, contrast or brightness of even the earliest VR headsets.
    - kybernetikos 5y ago
      That's the wrong way to think about it - they allow you to have experiences in the real world that would otherwise only be available in virtual worlds. And there are lots of examples: - seeing the upcoming birthdays/recent messages/interests you have in common etc of people you meet above their heads as you walk around. - having a map projected onto the sky of the world around you (like you're on a globe inside a globe looking up) - removing visual clutter, like unwanted adverts - allowing each user of a house or space to have it decorated the way they like - having x-ray vision to see things like cables, pipes etc in walls - seeing historical reconstructions in the same place as the real thing - visualizing a new item in the real world and manipulate it before you 3d print it - time-inverted trails - having an inverse trail showing you had to do movements you're trying to learn. - when trying to build something, seeing the exact places and actions you need to take in the real world - adding panes of information into the world where otherwise you don't have easy access to the internet. Like having a mobile phone of whatever size you want that hovers next to you. - leaving virtual objects in locations for friends - embodying virtual assistants into daemon like creatures In fact, with well implemented AR (a much harder problem of course than VR), you can have all the same experiences you can have in VR plus versions of those experiences that blend in the real world and environment you are in. It's strictly a superset of VR.
- Animats 5y ago
  Tangent: why is AR so attractive to people? Or, why is the idea of AR so attractive to people? We haven't seen much AR yet. Magic Leap was faking it. The Microsoft Hololens had some great demos, but was too expensive and not very useful. Google Glass was somewhat useful but socially unacceptable. Pokémon GO was wildly successful but googles are still too expensive for it. OK, so you can annotate the world. Now what? Games? Customer relationship management? Equipment maintenance guides? Doordash picking guidance? I have the horrible feeling that most people who wear AR goggles will be wearing them because their employer told them to. The goggles tell them what to do. (As usual, see "Manna" and "Hyperreality").
  - babyshake 5y ago
    Magic Leap was real. It just kinda sucked.
    - jonas21 5y ago
      The Magic Leap they sold everyone on: https://youtu.be/watch?v=GbpqwUUfMAQ https://youtu.be/watch?v=GbpqwUUfMAQ The Magic Leap they actually delivered: https://youtu.be/veSZJQ5_Wmg?t=122 https://youtu.be/veSZJQ5_Wmg?t=122
  - T-A 5y ago
    > The Microsoft Hololens had some great demos, but was too expensive and not very useful https://www.geekwire.com/2021/microsoft-awarded-army-contract-produce-mixed-reality-headset-soldiers-based-hololens/ https://www.geekwire.com/2021/microsoft-awarded-army-contrac...
- beebeepka 5y ago
  For me it's virtual screens. Let's have that and see where it takes us.
- babyshake 5y ago
  The killer app will be meetings. Apple knows this.
- goodcjw2 5y ago
  One way to think about AR is that it can do everything your Oculus Quest can do, but in the form of a pair of glasses that you can wear all day (like those prescription glasses that people already wearing). VR is like the PC you use at home / in office, AR is more like smartphones on the go. There is obviously quite a big technical gap :)
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    This "AR" that you're describing doesn't exist though. Current AR-equipped devices don't have anywhere near the FOV or contrast you can find in a basic HMD. Also, your second analogy is paradoxical. If AR is capable of doing "everything [the] Oculus Quest can do", why does VR even exist today? I understand the concept of AR, I just want to talk to someone actually involved in the hardware space about what they're doing to move the market forwards.
- germinalphrase 5y ago
  Thirty years ago, you might drive around an unfamiliar city with a friend offering directions as you go. Twenty years ago, you woukd print off turn by turn Mapquest directions and check them occasionally at a stop light. Now, you can have turn by turn directions piped into your ear without any other human assistance, allowing you to do the task at hand easier, safer and more quickly. Don’t be distracted by the challenges of the visual HUD, this is absolutely our AR present: overlaying digital tools and information onto our lived experience to make ourselves happier, smarter, more effective, etc.
- rdw 5y ago
  When Google Maps came out in 2004 and revolutionized mapping with the sheer quantity of data presented unbelievably smoothly, there was a similar (though smaller) excitment about "map-based" apps. It seemed like such a big blue ocean had opened and fortunes would be made on the back of new killer apps. I worked on a few prototypes myself and saw many pitches from various maps-based startups. But pretty much only Yelp was able to succeed. There just aren't a lot of highly-monetizable applications that are primarily map-based. No one knew the limits at the time, though. I think AR is in kind of the same place. The demos are mindblowing and there's enthusiasm, but there aren't a lot of killer apps with the state of the technology. For location-based apps, they really required a second piece in order to really open up the space: the smartphone. It may be that AR is waiting for some other supporting technologies before it becomes obviously laden with utility.
  - Gollapalli 5y ago
    I think the key point with AR is: How do you interact with it? The smartphone works because of the touchscreen. The blackberry was cool, but the smartphone wasn't ubiquitous until the iPhone. Similarly, the PC works because of the mouse. Other computer systems existed, but normal people weren't really using them day to day until you had systems with a mouse. AR has a peripheral problem. There's just no easy way to interact with it.
goodcjw2 5y ago
Properly head-mounted AR technology (ideally in the form of a pair of glasses/sunglasses) can have lots of potentials, but does require science-fiction level of imagination to visualize those use cases. Unfortunately, this is really hard. Mark Zuckerberg calls it "one of the hardest technical challenges of the decade". There are lots of fundamental technical breakthrough required to make it a reality. In different prototype labs, people are excited to see feasibilities being proved out in individual fronts. But moving all of them into production ready consumer grade hardware is a completely different story. Give it another 5 years, we might be able to see whether it's indeed possible. [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/mark-zuckerberg-calls-ar-glasses-one-of-the-hardest-technical-challenges-of-the-decade/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/mark-zuckerberg-calls-ar-glass...
- nonameiguess 5y ago
  Maybe this is just my personal bias against even wearing glasses, but to me, this kind of tech isn't viable as long as it requires a wearable at all. I don't even like wearing a watch. Until the projectors are built into the environment itself, like my walls can directly put holograms into the room with me, I won't want to use something like this. Or I guess if it's some kind of direct brain implant, though there's no way in hell I'm ever voluntarily implanting a Facebook product.
user3939382 5y ago
I’ve consistently been 10-15 years ahead of major changes in tech so I’m confident in my instincts here: the future of computing is wearable or implanted, integrated BCI and AR. Whether that’s 20, 50, or 100 years off I have no idea.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
bredren 5y ago
> I don't think I've ever learned, or grown, this much in a 6 month period before. Was this a startup of a personal project? Was much money raised? Post mortem analysis is good though this is quite an exposition for a relatively short lived venture.

> As the next paradigm of human-computer interaction, the emerging AR Cloud will fundamentally change the way we live, play, learn, and work. Tangent: why is AR so attractive to people? I've had VR since the first Oculus Quest came out, so I definitely understand the value in a good spatial experience. I've never had the desire for that immersion to lessen so I can start working with holographic oversight. Much like transparent displays, I think the idea of AR is a lot cooler than it will work in practice. It's fitting function to form, which is the wrong way to approach a problem like this.

psyc 5y ago
I admit I'm always puzzled by this as well, and can't help feeling (perhaps unfairly) that it's like preferring vinyl. Every VR thread I've ever seen has a lot of "VR is dead because of the resolution and it makes people sick, but AR! AR is endless possibilities!" Like, I think augmenting the world is cool. But going to an imaginary world is much cooler. Maybe it's just that I'm an escapist by nature, and other people are more adult and practical.
- alonmower 5y ago
  AR will replace your phone VR could replace your TV
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Correction: VR will replace your TV AR could replace your phone
kybernetikos 5y ago
I think it's because VR can give you super powers in an imaginary world while AR can give you super powers in the real world.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  What experiences does AR enable that are otherwise not possible with VR/traditional displays?
  - psyc 5y ago
    Walking around the city and seeing everyone's sins displayed above their heads.
  - ve55 5y ago
    To give a very short answer: getting most people to purchase and commonly use a VR headset is much more difficult than getting them to purchase a light set of glasses that they can wear and use anywhere with ease. There's many more applications as well, but there is absurd potential in it still imo.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Counterpoint: The Oculus Quest 2 costs $300, and I have yet to see a headset come close to it's level of adoption, let alone it's price. AR will be wildly expensive for the foreseeable future, and by the time we've fully democratized it there will be some new computing paradigm right around the corner. Sure, more people will likely prefer AR to VR in terms of comfort, but you need to manage your expectations. A "light set of glasses" isn't going to come within spitting distance of the resolution, FOV, contrast or brightness of even the earliest VR headsets.
  - kybernetikos 5y ago
    That's the wrong way to think about it - they allow you to have experiences in the real world that would otherwise only be available in virtual worlds. And there are lots of examples: - seeing the upcoming birthdays/recent messages/interests you have in common etc of people you meet above their heads as you walk around. - having a map projected onto the sky of the world around you (like you're on a globe inside a globe looking up) - removing visual clutter, like unwanted adverts - allowing each user of a house or space to have it decorated the way they like - having x-ray vision to see things like cables, pipes etc in walls - seeing historical reconstructions in the same place as the real thing - visualizing a new item in the real world and manipulate it before you 3d print it - time-inverted trails - having an inverse trail showing you had to do movements you're trying to learn. - when trying to build something, seeing the exact places and actions you need to take in the real world - adding panes of information into the world where otherwise you don't have easy access to the internet. Like having a mobile phone of whatever size you want that hovers next to you. - leaving virtual objects in locations for friends - embodying virtual assistants into daemon like creatures In fact, with well implemented AR (a much harder problem of course than VR), you can have all the same experiences you can have in VR plus versions of those experiences that blend in the real world and environment you are in. It's strictly a superset of VR.
Animats 5y ago
Tangent: why is AR so attractive to people? Or, why is the idea of AR so attractive to people? We haven't seen much AR yet. Magic Leap was faking it. The Microsoft Hololens had some great demos, but was too expensive and not very useful. Google Glass was somewhat useful but socially unacceptable. Pokémon GO was wildly successful but googles are still too expensive for it. OK, so you can annotate the world. Now what? Games? Customer relationship management? Equipment maintenance guides? Doordash picking guidance? I have the horrible feeling that most people who wear AR goggles will be wearing them because their employer told them to. The goggles tell them what to do. (As usual, see "Manna" and "Hyperreality").
- babyshake 5y ago
  Magic Leap was real. It just kinda sucked.
  - jonas21 5y ago
    The Magic Leap they sold everyone on: https://youtu.be/watch?v=GbpqwUUfMAQ https://youtu.be/watch?v=GbpqwUUfMAQ The Magic Leap they actually delivered: https://youtu.be/veSZJQ5_Wmg?t=122 https://youtu.be/veSZJQ5_Wmg?t=122
- T-A 5y ago
  > The Microsoft Hololens had some great demos, but was too expensive and not very useful https://www.geekwire.com/2021/microsoft-awarded-army-contract-produce-mixed-reality-headset-soldiers-based-hololens/ https://www.geekwire.com/2021/microsoft-awarded-army-contrac...
beebeepka 5y ago
For me it's virtual screens. Let's have that and see where it takes us.
babyshake 5y ago
The killer app will be meetings. Apple knows this.
goodcjw2 5y ago
One way to think about AR is that it can do everything your Oculus Quest can do, but in the form of a pair of glasses that you can wear all day (like those prescription glasses that people already wearing). VR is like the PC you use at home / in office, AR is more like smartphones on the go. There is obviously quite a big technical gap :)
- smoldesu 5y ago
  This "AR" that you're describing doesn't exist though. Current AR-equipped devices don't have anywhere near the FOV or contrast you can find in a basic HMD. Also, your second analogy is paradoxical. If AR is capable of doing "everything [the] Oculus Quest can do", why does VR even exist today? I understand the concept of AR, I just want to talk to someone actually involved in the hardware space about what they're doing to move the market forwards.
germinalphrase 5y ago
Thirty years ago, you might drive around an unfamiliar city with a friend offering directions as you go. Twenty years ago, you woukd print off turn by turn Mapquest directions and check them occasionally at a stop light. Now, you can have turn by turn directions piped into your ear without any other human assistance, allowing you to do the task at hand easier, safer and more quickly. Don’t be distracted by the challenges of the visual HUD, this is absolutely our AR present: overlaying digital tools and information onto our lived experience to make ourselves happier, smarter, more effective, etc.
rdw 5y ago
When Google Maps came out in 2004 and revolutionized mapping with the sheer quantity of data presented unbelievably smoothly, there was a similar (though smaller) excitment about "map-based" apps. It seemed like such a big blue ocean had opened and fortunes would be made on the back of new killer apps. I worked on a few prototypes myself and saw many pitches from various maps-based startups. But pretty much only Yelp was able to succeed. There just aren't a lot of highly-monetizable applications that are primarily map-based. No one knew the limits at the time, though. I think AR is in kind of the same place. The demos are mindblowing and there's enthusiasm, but there aren't a lot of killer apps with the state of the technology. For location-based apps, they really required a second piece in order to really open up the space: the smartphone. It may be that AR is waiting for some other supporting technologies before it becomes obviously laden with utility.
- Gollapalli 5y ago
  I think the key point with AR is: How do you interact with it? The smartphone works because of the touchscreen. The blackberry was cool, but the smartphone wasn't ubiquitous until the iPhone. Similarly, the PC works because of the mouse. Other computer systems existed, but normal people weren't really using them day to day until you had systems with a mouse. AR has a peripheral problem. There's just no easy way to interact with it.

goodcjw2 5y ago

Properly head-mounted AR technology (ideally in the form of a pair of glasses/sunglasses) can have lots of potentials, but does require science-fiction level of imagination to visualize those use cases. Unfortunately, this is really hard. Mark Zuckerberg calls it "one of the hardest technical challenges of the decade". There are lots of fundamental technical breakthrough required to make it a reality. In different prototype labs, people are excited to see feasibilities being proved out in individual fronts. But moving all of them into production ready consumer grade hardware is a completely different story. Give it another 5 years, we might be able to see whether it's indeed possible. [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/mark-zuckerberg-calls-ar-glasses-one-of-the-hardest-technical-challenges-of-the-decade/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/mark-zuckerberg-calls-ar-glass...

nonameiguess 5y ago
Maybe this is just my personal bias against even wearing glasses, but to me, this kind of tech isn't viable as long as it requires a wearable at all. I don't even like wearing a watch. Until the projectors are built into the environment itself, like my walls can directly put holograms into the room with me, I won't want to use something like this. Or I guess if it's some kind of direct brain implant, though there's no way in hell I'm ever voluntarily implanting a Facebook product.

user3939382 5y ago

I’ve consistently been 10-15 years ahead of major changes in tech so I’m confident in my instincts here: the future of computing is wearable or implanted, integrated BCI and AR. Whether that’s 20, 50, or 100 years off I have no idea.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bredren 5y ago

> I don't think I've ever learned, or grown, this much in a 6 month period before. Was this a startup of a personal project? Was much money raised? Post mortem analysis is good though this is quite an exposition for a relatively short lived venture.