4 ms·

This is one of the most delicate and hard to legislate for things in modern society. 'My body my rules' works well for individuals, but the govt. makes laws fo

by screye 5y ago

This is one of the most delicate and hard to legislate for things in modern society. 'My body my rules' works well for individuals, but the govt. makes laws for various 'peoples'. It is incredibly difficult to make access to prostitution easier without causing aftershocks among other social phenomena. (Trafficking, Abuse, Laundering) If anything, this sounds like the Swedish Govt. making prostitution 'illegal', but protecting the sex workers by making it hard for them to be criminally liable. Rather, the ones associated with them, and the ones who seek it are explicitly targeted. As of this moment and a millenium preceding it, society has considered sex and all relationships involved in it to be of a special type. The standard rules of law, capitalism, trauma, romance, et al. fall apart once sex is added to the conversation. We cannot 'normalize' sex work, if sex itself is not normalized. By normalized, I mean that it occupies a space in society that is no different from any other activity. It means treating sexual assault like assault, sexual harassments like a rude remark and trafficking as Qatar style indentured labor. I know I sound a little 'satanic panic-y' in this comment, but to trivialize the sex and the difficulty of legislating for it, is a mistake mankind makes at its own peril.

71a54xd 5y ago
It's interesting how more and more cases of women being kidnapped and forced to sell explicit content via OnlyFans[0] have started to surface recently. I personally don't have any objection to sex work, however it's not hard to see why sex work in certain forms poses an existential risk to a society or would be seen as such by a government. [0] - https://goodwordnews.com/florida-man-accused-of-kidnapping-woman-forcing-her-to-join-onlyfans/ https://goodwordnews.com/florida-man-accused-of-kidnapping-w...
- screye 5y ago
  > personally don't have any objection to sex work, however it's not hard to see why sex work in certain forms poses an existential risk to a society That is pretty much my stance too.
sidlls 5y ago
It is incredibly difficult to make access to prostitution easier without causing aftershocks among other social phenomena. (Trafficking, Abuse, Laundering) Historically, making something legal tends to reduce illicit behaviors like trafficking, abuse, and laundering. What makes sex work different from these things? Society's "special" treatment of sex isn't uniform, nor is it that special.
- creamytaco 5y ago
  The fact that we're not talking about commodities but vulnerable humans that can be intimidated to silence and suffering by organized crime. The very presence of this space as a racket open to economic exploitation fuels crime and trafficking. The only realistic solution seems (unfortunately) to be reducing the space itself. There have been plenty of comprehensive reports showing exactly how legalizing prostitution helps organized crime. This is just one of them: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/2005/360488/IPOL-JOIN_ET(2005)360488_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/20...
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > Historically, making something legal tends to reduce illicit behaviors like trafficking, abuse, and laundering. Not always true. Make ivory trading legal, and people will poach elephants to extinction to get more ivory. Legalize the sex trade, and vulnerable women will be trafficked as sex slaves. It's not always feasible to regulate the supply side of a market and keep it clean; sometimes all you can do is shut it down altogether.
- only_as_i_fall 5y ago
  I think it's important to talk about how it's legalized and what the actual goals are. You're right, making activities illegal whether it's drug use, alcohol or prostitution seems to exacerbate the problem and hurt the people these laws are intended to help. That said, I don't think there's any reason we can't legalize or partially legalize prostitution while still admitting that it is a net negative for society and it should be discouraged.
- screye 5y ago
jascii 5y ago
"Trafficking, Abuse, Laundering". Why would someone "launder" money from legal sources? It seems that most of these fenomena thrive particularly well in illegality.
- screye 5y ago
  The same way art is legal and the most popular form of laundering money. > changing large amounts of money obtained from crimes, such as drug trafficking, into origination from a legitimate source By definition, money laundering involves using a legal source for converting black money into white money. I do however agree, that the pre-established ways of laundering money are easier than the sex work industry could ever be. I didn't mean to mention these 3 things are the main aftershocks. They were just a few that came to mind. IMO, normalizing sex work, which is very different from legalizing prostitution) will have unforeseen effects (for better or for worse) on the very fundamental foundations of how our societies work.

by screye 5y ago

71a54xd 5y ago

It's interesting how more and more cases of women being kidnapped and forced to sell explicit content via OnlyFans[0] have started to surface recently. I personally don't have any objection to sex work, however it's not hard to see why sex work in certain forms poses an existential risk to a society or would be seen as such by a government. [0] - https://goodwordnews.com/florida-man-accused-of-kidnapping-woman-forcing-her-to-join-onlyfans/ https://goodwordnews.com/florida-man-accused-of-kidnapping-w...

screye 5y ago
> personally don't have any objection to sex work, however it's not hard to see why sex work in certain forms poses an existential risk to a society That is pretty much my stance too.

sidlls 5y ago

It is incredibly difficult to make access to prostitution easier without causing aftershocks among other social phenomena. (Trafficking, Abuse, Laundering) Historically, making something legal tends to reduce illicit behaviors like trafficking, abuse, and laundering. What makes sex work different from these things? Society's "special" treatment of sex isn't uniform, nor is it that special.

creamytaco 5y ago
The fact that we're not talking about commodities but vulnerable humans that can be intimidated to silence and suffering by organized crime. The very presence of this space as a racket open to economic exploitation fuels crime and trafficking. The only realistic solution seems (unfortunately) to be reducing the space itself. There have been plenty of comprehensive reports showing exactly how legalizing prostitution helps organized crime. This is just one of them: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/2005/360488/IPOL-JOIN_ET(2005)360488_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/20...
zozbot234 5y ago
> Historically, making something legal tends to reduce illicit behaviors like trafficking, abuse, and laundering. Not always true. Make ivory trading legal, and people will poach elephants to extinction to get more ivory. Legalize the sex trade, and vulnerable women will be trafficked as sex slaves. It's not always feasible to regulate the supply side of a market and keep it clean; sometimes all you can do is shut it down altogether.
only_as_i_fall 5y ago
I think it's important to talk about how it's legalized and what the actual goals are. You're right, making activities illegal whether it's drug use, alcohol or prostitution seems to exacerbate the problem and hurt the people these laws are intended to help. That said, I don't think there's any reason we can't legalize or partially legalize prostitution while still admitting that it is a net negative for society and it should be discouraged.
screye 5y ago

jascii 5y ago

"Trafficking, Abuse, Laundering". Why would someone "launder" money from legal sources? It seems that most of these fenomena thrive particularly well in illegality.

screye 5y ago
The same way art is legal and the most popular form of laundering money. > changing large amounts of money obtained from crimes, such as drug trafficking, into origination from a legitimate source By definition, money laundering involves using a legal source for converting black money into white money. I do however agree, that the pre-established ways of laundering money are easier than the sex work industry could ever be. I didn't mean to mention these 3 things are the main aftershocks. They were just a few that came to mind. IMO, normalizing sex work, which is very different from legalizing prostitution) will have unforeseen effects (for better or for worse) on the very fundamental foundations of how our societies work.