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I don’t see how this is nefarious (in itself). The big challenge with donating money is trusting that it will get used “correctly”. Donating to organizations un

by 542458 5y ago

I don’t see how this is nefarious (in itself). The big challenge with donating money is trusting that it will get used “correctly”. Donating to organizations under control of people you know and trust is the easiest way to do this. If there was some sort of slush-fund thing going on it would be a problem, but I haven’t seen any evidence of that. The tax rate on gifts isn’t that high, and so you’d have to be doing really extreme fraud for it to me more profitable than a straight gift.

kiliantics 5y ago
There are plenty reasons to be skeptical: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundat... It is just so undemocratic for a handful of people to be in control of infrastructure projects that will affect the lives of millions or billions. They can so easily make a project look good that still benefits them unfairly and there is some evidence that this is what's happening.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  I dont see any claims of self dealing in those criticisms
  - luffapi 5y ago
    It’s about control. Gates and Buffet have massive amounts of control over public policy due to their “donations”. We as a society lose out when a few mega billionaires have anything to do with policy.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      The purpose of many charities is explicitly to influence public policy, but How does your second sentence follow from your first?
      - luffapi 5y ago
        Because allowing billionaires to leverage public policy is a centralization of control. It gives single individuals too much sway. You rely on them being benevolent (they’re not) and deal with their idiosyncrasies (at best). It’s bad system design and it’s not democracy. It’s not even socialism, it’s an oligarchy.
    - pochamago 5y ago
      The alternative is letting Congress decide how to spend it. Decentralized philanthropy seems to me like a better system
      - infamouscow 5y ago
        Sounds like you're making an argument for plutocracy.
        pochamago 5y ago
        I think it's good that taxes can solve problems a decentralized, and therefore disorganized, system will struggle with, but in the same way i don't think that a centralized economy will run as efficiently as a free market, I think philanthropy will make greater gains if a variety of parties are allowed to spend their money on what they think is important without needing collective approval.
        luffapi 5y ago
        You’re discounting scale though. Just like Microsoft destroyed competition and innovation with their monopoly (only possible with government backed IP laws), Gates eliminates competition for philanthropy and policy by force of his fortune. Gates is centralizing things, around himself.
clydethefrog 5y ago
How do you come to the conclusion there is no financial benefit in putting your wealth into charity foundations? I am quoting some parts of an interview last year with BC Law Professor Ray Madoff: >The government provides generous tax benefits for charitable giving but the rules provide very little assurance that this giving will actually make its way to charities. A well-planned gift can save a donor as much as 74 percent of the value of that gift in taxes. That means a $10 million gift can cost the federal government $7.4 million in forgone taxes and therefore only cost the donor $2.6 million after in after tax dollars. >Right now, there's over $1 trillion dollars set aside in private foundations and over $120 billion set aside in donor-advised funds. Donors get all the same tax benefits from putting their money in these intermediary vehicles as when they give funds outright to a working charity, like a food bank. Yet the public has no assurance of getting any benefit from this money, because there's no requirement under current law that these funds ever be distributed for public benefit. Donor advised funds have no payout requirements under current law and private foundations can fully meet their payout requirements by giving to donor-advised funds or by paying salaries to family members. https://www.arnoldventures.org/stories/a-new-initiative-aims-to-ramp-up-charitable-giving/ https://www.arnoldventures.org/stories/a-new-initiative-aims...

by 542458 5y ago

kiliantics 5y ago

There are plenty reasons to be skeptical: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundat... It is just so undemocratic for a handful of people to be in control of infrastructure projects that will affect the lives of millions or billions. They can so easily make a project look good that still benefits them unfairly and there is some evidence that this is what's happening.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
I dont see any claims of self dealing in those criticisms
- luffapi 5y ago
  It’s about control. Gates and Buffet have massive amounts of control over public policy due to their “donations”. We as a society lose out when a few mega billionaires have anything to do with policy.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    The purpose of many charities is explicitly to influence public policy, but How does your second sentence follow from your first?
    - luffapi 5y ago
      Because allowing billionaires to leverage public policy is a centralization of control. It gives single individuals too much sway. You rely on them being benevolent (they’re not) and deal with their idiosyncrasies (at best). It’s bad system design and it’s not democracy. It’s not even socialism, it’s an oligarchy.
  - pochamago 5y ago
    The alternative is letting Congress decide how to spend it. Decentralized philanthropy seems to me like a better system
    - infamouscow 5y ago
      Sounds like you're making an argument for plutocracy.
      - pochamago 5y ago
        I think it's good that taxes can solve problems a decentralized, and therefore disorganized, system will struggle with, but in the same way i don't think that a centralized economy will run as efficiently as a free market, I think philanthropy will make greater gains if a variety of parties are allowed to spend their money on what they think is important without needing collective approval.
        luffapi 5y ago
        You’re discounting scale though. Just like Microsoft destroyed competition and innovation with their monopoly (only possible with government backed IP laws), Gates eliminates competition for philanthropy and policy by force of his fortune. Gates is centralizing things, around himself.

clydethefrog 5y ago

How do you come to the conclusion there is no financial benefit in putting your wealth into charity foundations? I am quoting some parts of an interview last year with BC Law Professor Ray Madoff: >The government provides generous tax benefits for charitable giving but the rules provide very little assurance that this giving will actually make its way to charities. A well-planned gift can save a donor as much as 74 percent of the value of that gift in taxes. That means a $10 million gift can cost the federal government $7.4 million in forgone taxes and therefore only cost the donor $2.6 million after in after tax dollars. >Right now, there's over $1 trillion dollars set aside in private foundations and over $120 billion set aside in donor-advised funds. Donors get all the same tax benefits from putting their money in these intermediary vehicles as when they give funds outright to a working charity, like a food bank. Yet the public has no assurance of getting any benefit from this money, because there's no requirement under current law that these funds ever be distributed for public benefit. Donor advised funds have no payout requirements under current law and private foundations can fully meet their payout requirements by giving to donor-advised funds or by paying salaries to family members. https://www.arnoldventures.org/stories/a-new-initiative-aims-to-ramp-up-charitable-giving/ https://www.arnoldventures.org/stories/a-new-initiative-aims...