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while this article focusses on the gender ideology issues, IMHO the censorship in universites is on a wider range of issues, with the common denominator being t

while this article focusses on the gender ideology issues, IMHO the censorship in universites is on a wider range of issues, with the common denominator being the viewpoints espoused in far-left circles (not passing judgement here on whether they are right or wrong) Enforced group-think is going to be the death of these universities.

metalliqaz 5y ago
"Enforced group-think is going to be the death of these universities." How?
- jollybean 5y ago
  By expunging, shaming, expelling, disinviting, cancelling, eschewing, not offering positions, denying grants, avoiding publication, demoting those that don't meet the requirements of a radical orthodoxy. Noam Chomsky of all people (!), and a bunch of other staunchly centre-left luminaries had to take out a full page ad in Harper's to make the point. [2] How far would an ugly trend have to exhibit itself in order for these fairly respectable and otherwise mild mannered people to not only 1) notice but 2) act and then 3) make a big show out of it in a worldwide signal? They tried to cancel Stephen Pinker [2] for postulating that the problem of Law Enforcement in the USA is a generally overbearing justice system, not necessarily specific to one race, although conceding that's a problem. For that utterly reasonable statement, they tried to remove his Chair and participation a bunch of groups. He was fine, but 'they came for him' and were he to have been less prominent, 'they' would have won. It's intellectual cowardice and social bullying by angry people. My belief is that it's not even ideological at the end of the day, rather, it's the petty expression of power by those who've never had it before and who were transgressed themselves at some earlier point in their lives. [1] https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/506314-jk-rowling-noam-chomsky-sign-letter-warning-of-restriction-of https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/506314-jk-... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/us/steven-pinker-harvard.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/us/steven-pinker-harvard....
  - breckenedge 5y ago
    Here's the actual letter rather than a blog about it: https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/ https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/. Very brief, only three paragraphs.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    The late (devout Christian!) William Stuntz wrote an entire book (in front of me right now) about the overbearing justice system and and never got cancelled for it.
    - jollybean 5y ago
      Pinker's mistake wasn't about 'the justice system' - it was disagreeing with BLM populist orthodoxy. It's revolutionary 'Reign of Terror' stuff around ostracizing the impure (i.e. Trumpers destroying Romneys, Rubios), not academic disagreement.
- arminiusreturns 5y ago
  Mostly because it is a rejection of first principles thinking, which is a key tool in the toolbelt of critical thinking, supposedly part of any university's mandate.
  - metalliqaz 5y ago
    this doesn't explain how the universities will "die" all the other games in town are doing the same thing, and if a new one popped up to replace it, who would they get to run it?
bachmeier 5y ago
> Enforced group-think is going to be the death of these universities. I've been working at universities for a couple decades now and have never experienced "enforced group-think".
- jollybean 5y ago
  Well then you're both 1) of the same political mindset of the majority and therefore less likely to notice and 2) unwilling to take the social temperature of such things because it's obviously happening [1] and there is a mountain of empirical evidence to support the fact that students and faculty are wary of speaking their minds. [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/rabble-rouser/201811/why-students-are-terrified-speak-their-minds https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/rabble-rouser/201811...
  - bachmeier 5y ago
    I very seriously doubt that a middle-aged white male economics professor (who grew up in the sticks in North Dakota, no less) is of the same political mindset of "the majority". > students and faculty are wary of speaking their minds If you're worried about disapproval of others, being an academic is the wrong industry for you. If academic freedom and the first amendment aren't enough to protect your speech, you'd really be in trouble working in any other industry. Now if you're going to claim that in society at large you have to use restraint when talking, and that you'll be attacked by people of all political views, I'd probably agree. That's pretty different from what you wrote.
- notahacker 5y ago
  Funnily enough, I spoke earlier this week with an academic whose concern about recent developments was that legal/policy papers he was writing for government departments were much more likely to be unpublished or partially redacted than in previous decades, for reasons which had nothing to do with culture warring. Easy to see why governments would prefer the public believe the real threat to university research was a handful of students picketing the intentionally provocative...

metalliqaz 5y ago

"Enforced group-think is going to be the death of these universities." How?

jollybean 5y ago
By expunging, shaming, expelling, disinviting, cancelling, eschewing, not offering positions, denying grants, avoiding publication, demoting those that don't meet the requirements of a radical orthodoxy. Noam Chomsky of all people (!), and a bunch of other staunchly centre-left luminaries had to take out a full page ad in Harper's to make the point. [2] How far would an ugly trend have to exhibit itself in order for these fairly respectable and otherwise mild mannered people to not only 1) notice but 2) act and then 3) make a big show out of it in a worldwide signal? They tried to cancel Stephen Pinker [2] for postulating that the problem of Law Enforcement in the USA is a generally overbearing justice system, not necessarily specific to one race, although conceding that's a problem. For that utterly reasonable statement, they tried to remove his Chair and participation a bunch of groups. He was fine, but 'they came for him' and were he to have been less prominent, 'they' would have won. It's intellectual cowardice and social bullying by angry people. My belief is that it's not even ideological at the end of the day, rather, it's the petty expression of power by those who've never had it before and who were transgressed themselves at some earlier point in their lives. [1] https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/506314-jk-rowling-noam-chomsky-sign-letter-warning-of-restriction-of https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/506314-jk-... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/us/steven-pinker-harvard.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/us/steven-pinker-harvard....
- breckenedge 5y ago
  Here's the actual letter rather than a blog about it: https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/ https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/. Very brief, only three paragraphs.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  The late (devout Christian!) William Stuntz wrote an entire book (in front of me right now) about the overbearing justice system and and never got cancelled for it.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    Pinker's mistake wasn't about 'the justice system' - it was disagreeing with BLM populist orthodoxy. It's revolutionary 'Reign of Terror' stuff around ostracizing the impure (i.e. Trumpers destroying Romneys, Rubios), not academic disagreement.
arminiusreturns 5y ago
Mostly because it is a rejection of first principles thinking, which is a key tool in the toolbelt of critical thinking, supposedly part of any university's mandate.
- metalliqaz 5y ago
  this doesn't explain how the universities will "die" all the other games in town are doing the same thing, and if a new one popped up to replace it, who would they get to run it?

bachmeier 5y ago

> Enforced group-think is going to be the death of these universities. I've been working at universities for a couple decades now and have never experienced "enforced group-think".

jollybean 5y ago
Well then you're both 1) of the same political mindset of the majority and therefore less likely to notice and 2) unwilling to take the social temperature of such things because it's obviously happening [1] and there is a mountain of empirical evidence to support the fact that students and faculty are wary of speaking their minds. [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/rabble-rouser/201811/why-students-are-terrified-speak-their-minds https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/rabble-rouser/201811...
- bachmeier 5y ago
  I very seriously doubt that a middle-aged white male economics professor (who grew up in the sticks in North Dakota, no less) is of the same political mindset of "the majority". > students and faculty are wary of speaking their minds If you're worried about disapproval of others, being an academic is the wrong industry for you. If academic freedom and the first amendment aren't enough to protect your speech, you'd really be in trouble working in any other industry. Now if you're going to claim that in society at large you have to use restraint when talking, and that you'll be attacked by people of all political views, I'd probably agree. That's pretty different from what you wrote.
notahacker 5y ago
Funnily enough, I spoke earlier this week with an academic whose concern about recent developments was that legal/policy papers he was writing for government departments were much more likely to be unpublished or partially redacted than in previous decades, for reasons which had nothing to do with culture warring. Easy to see why governments would prefer the public believe the real threat to university research was a handful of students picketing the intentionally provocative...