5 ms·

For measurable environmental impact the network should at least support the annual migration of Homo Europeanus Nordicus to the Mediterranean sea.

ginko 5y ago
That would be great. Hopefully the new tunnel[1] linking Zealand and North Germany should make that possible. A direct connection from Oslo to Hamburg would open up so many good train connections. Here's hoping DB doesn't screw up the connection like they did with the Gotthard tunnel. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_Fixed_Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_Fixed_Link
- pintxo 5y ago
  They surely will
- toomanybeersies 5y ago
  Getting off topic, but skimming past I read that as "the new tunnel linking New Zealand and North Germany", which would be an impressive feat of engineering!
  - johannes1234321 5y ago
    Critical part with that route is to go really through the direct line through the core and bit the long way close to surface.
- dkarp 5y ago
  I once took the train while backpacking from Hamburg to Copenhagen. I was incredibly surprised when part way through the journey I awoke on a ferry. It still blows my mind that they have a train that can roll on and off a ferry. Unfortunately, it looks like it no longer takes the ferry and one day will take that tunnel instead https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/hamburg-to-copenhagen-by-train.htm https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/hamburg-to-copenhag...
  - cromka 5y ago
    That’s also the case for trains going to Sicily, BTW.
  - liversage 5y ago
    I live in Copenhagen. Nowadays we have bridges or tunnels everywhere except when traveling to Germany. However, when I was younger ALL train travel outside Zealand (with Lolland and Falster) would involve going on a ferry. The carriages were on the lower deck sometimes mixed with cars and sometimes with cars on a separate deck. After departure you could leave the train for a nice break. It wasn't particularly fast but very relaxing. Surprisingly, I also remember that I sometimes would meet old friends while strolling on the deck. These ferries were bottlenecks and would put a lot of people in the same place at the same time.
    - dkarp 5y ago
      > These ferries were bottlenecks and would put a lot of people in the same place at the same time. It's easy to sound like a luddite when talking about these things, but something has obviously been unintentionally lost when the ferry was replaced with a tunnel. I've noticed that travelling with my noise cancelling headphones on precludes serendipity. What I mean is, 99% of the time I don't speak to someone when sitting on the train but every once in a while I get into a conversation and something comes of it. If I always have headphones on, I'm guaranteeing that will never happen.
- rpadovani 5y ago
  I'm really looking forward to the Brenner Base Tunnel[0]. Apart from cutting train time from Innsbruck to Bolzano from 120 to 50 minutes, it will increase the number of trains that can go through, and I hope it will absorb a lot of the lorries going through the Brenner Pass, [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_Base_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_Base_Tunnel
  - _ph_ 5y ago
    It would be even more awesome, if it were directly connected to the German train system, but on the German side, the connection is severely lacking and might not be there for many years. The state of the German railway system is pretty scandalous. The connection to the Swiss is also overloaded.
    - rpadovani 5y ago
      Yeah I'm unfortunately well aware. Also, Bolzano-Verona is quite lacking! But the Berlin–Palermo railway axis is one of the "core" projects of the EU, so I hope it will improve in time
tgv 5y ago
Every year, 3.7 million Dutch visit the Mediterranean. Even if you had sleeper trains with 500 beds (the current ones seem to have around 200), you'd need a staggering 7400 trips (and another 7400 back) for just the Dutch population. Since most people leave within a period of 3 weeks, that's one every 5 minutes. Totally infeasible, I'm afraid.
- cromka 5y ago
  I understand many of them use cars these days. Otherwise, to counter your argument, there would have to be a plane every 5 minutes, and short-haul narrows bodies don’t carry 500 passengers, either. Cars are not that big of a problem, especially if fully occupied, which I imagine is very often the case when going for holidays. And especially with increasing electrification, they will keep becoming lesser of a carbon footprint contributor.
  - tgv 5y ago
    I think charging several times during a trip is going to be a blocker. And there are really many planes from the Dutch airports to the Mediterranean: 30 in the coming three hours from AMS, EIN and MST combined.
- streamofdigits 5y ago
  hmm, it might be that your calculation is the start of something wonderful, not the end of it :-) The narrow holiday season is quite artificial: we live through the pandemic-induced work-from-home experience. rethinking why and when we travel in large numbers seems like a timely idea. Besides facilitating a sustainable migration this lowers the environmental burden at the destinations not to mention the enjoyment of less crowded facilities. The train size / frequency etc could be worked-on although I suspect you can't achieve large multiple differences. In any case its not about getting all the summer migration to happen via train. Its more appropriate to think of it as another justification to have a complete and streamlined rail network across Europe (this being another potentially significant and steady source of passengers).
asdff 5y ago
They should also bore a tunnel through the center of the earth to get all the Australians who appear in low key places like Croatia every summer.

ginko 5y ago

That would be great. Hopefully the new tunnel[1] linking Zealand and North Germany should make that possible. A direct connection from Oslo to Hamburg would open up so many good train connections. Here's hoping DB doesn't screw up the connection like they did with the Gotthard tunnel. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_Fixed_Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_Fixed_Link

pintxo 5y ago
They surely will
toomanybeersies 5y ago
Getting off topic, but skimming past I read that as "the new tunnel linking New Zealand and North Germany", which would be an impressive feat of engineering!
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  Critical part with that route is to go really through the direct line through the core and bit the long way close to surface.
dkarp 5y ago
I once took the train while backpacking from Hamburg to Copenhagen. I was incredibly surprised when part way through the journey I awoke on a ferry. It still blows my mind that they have a train that can roll on and off a ferry. Unfortunately, it looks like it no longer takes the ferry and one day will take that tunnel instead https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/hamburg-to-copenhagen-by-train.htm https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/hamburg-to-copenhag...
- cromka 5y ago
  That’s also the case for trains going to Sicily, BTW.
- liversage 5y ago
  I live in Copenhagen. Nowadays we have bridges or tunnels everywhere except when traveling to Germany. However, when I was younger ALL train travel outside Zealand (with Lolland and Falster) would involve going on a ferry. The carriages were on the lower deck sometimes mixed with cars and sometimes with cars on a separate deck. After departure you could leave the train for a nice break. It wasn't particularly fast but very relaxing. Surprisingly, I also remember that I sometimes would meet old friends while strolling on the deck. These ferries were bottlenecks and would put a lot of people in the same place at the same time.
  - dkarp 5y ago
    > These ferries were bottlenecks and would put a lot of people in the same place at the same time. It's easy to sound like a luddite when talking about these things, but something has obviously been unintentionally lost when the ferry was replaced with a tunnel. I've noticed that travelling with my noise cancelling headphones on precludes serendipity. What I mean is, 99% of the time I don't speak to someone when sitting on the train but every once in a while I get into a conversation and something comes of it. If I always have headphones on, I'm guaranteeing that will never happen.
rpadovani 5y ago
I'm really looking forward to the Brenner Base Tunnel[0]. Apart from cutting train time from Innsbruck to Bolzano from 120 to 50 minutes, it will increase the number of trains that can go through, and I hope it will absorb a lot of the lorries going through the Brenner Pass, [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_Base_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_Base_Tunnel
- _ph_ 5y ago
  It would be even more awesome, if it were directly connected to the German train system, but on the German side, the connection is severely lacking and might not be there for many years. The state of the German railway system is pretty scandalous. The connection to the Swiss is also overloaded.
  - rpadovani 5y ago
    Yeah I'm unfortunately well aware. Also, Bolzano-Verona is quite lacking! But the Berlin–Palermo railway axis is one of the "core" projects of the EU, so I hope it will improve in time

tgv 5y ago

Every year, 3.7 million Dutch visit the Mediterranean. Even if you had sleeper trains with 500 beds (the current ones seem to have around 200), you'd need a staggering 7400 trips (and another 7400 back) for just the Dutch population. Since most people leave within a period of 3 weeks, that's one every 5 minutes. Totally infeasible, I'm afraid.

cromka 5y ago
I understand many of them use cars these days. Otherwise, to counter your argument, there would have to be a plane every 5 minutes, and short-haul narrows bodies don’t carry 500 passengers, either. Cars are not that big of a problem, especially if fully occupied, which I imagine is very often the case when going for holidays. And especially with increasing electrification, they will keep becoming lesser of a carbon footprint contributor.
- tgv 5y ago
  I think charging several times during a trip is going to be a blocker. And there are really many planes from the Dutch airports to the Mediterranean: 30 in the coming three hours from AMS, EIN and MST combined.
streamofdigits 5y ago
hmm, it might be that your calculation is the start of something wonderful, not the end of it :-) The narrow holiday season is quite artificial: we live through the pandemic-induced work-from-home experience. rethinking why and when we travel in large numbers seems like a timely idea. Besides facilitating a sustainable migration this lowers the environmental burden at the destinations not to mention the enjoyment of less crowded facilities. The train size / frequency etc could be worked-on although I suspect you can't achieve large multiple differences. In any case its not about getting all the summer migration to happen via train. Its more appropriate to think of it as another justification to have a complete and streamlined rail network across Europe (this being another potentially significant and steady source of passengers).

asdff 5y ago

They should also bore a tunnel through the center of the earth to get all the Australians who appear in low key places like Croatia every summer.