5 ms·

Freedom of expression/free speech doesn’t mean freedom not to be offended or that you have to agree with the views. If we do not support even the most offensiv

by ixacto 5y ago

Freedom of expression/free speech doesn’t mean freedom not to be offended or that you have to agree with the views. If we do not support even the most offensive speech then we risk a very slippery slope leading to censorship and 1984.

briandear 5y ago
We’ve already skipped so far down the slope that it’s unrecoverable. We’re in the midst of a Cultural Revolution. It’s bonkers how being gender-critical can get you fired or silenced or violently protested. Or how being anti-Marxist makes you a racist. Or how even having traditional values is worthy of being firebombed.
- Jotra7 5y ago
  This comment right here shows where discourse is at with the right wing. Screaming and crying about some imagined persecution while controlling everything. I'm so sick of it.
- busterarm 5y ago
  > Or how being anti-Marxist makes you a racist. Especially given the historical record on empowered Marxists and saying/doing things that are extremely racist and homophobic.
- staplers 5y ago
  Being pro-marxist 70 years ago meant jail time. It's always been this way, just for a different sect of people.
tetranomiga 5y ago
There's no historical reason to think that not supporting extreme speech will lead to fascism. There are historical reasons to think that curbing extremist speech protects democracy (see the Weimar Republic).
- tarboreus 5y ago
  Why focus only on fascism? What about authoritarianism? Look at the USSR and the modern CCP.
  - tetranomiga 5y ago
    Because the west and especially the US has, very specifically, a fascism problem.
    - dang 5y ago
      It looks like your account has been using HN primarily for ideological battle. Can you please not do that? It's against the rules here because it destroys the curious conversation that HN is supposed to exist for. We ban accounts that do this, regardless of what their ideology happens to be. See [1] for more explanation. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
      - tetranomiga 5y ago
        Sorry, just saw this. Will do.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  There are also historical reasons to think that tyranny has to suppress free speech in order to survive. So even if extreme speech can lead to tyranny, free speech can lead you back out - if you can keep the tyranny from destroying the free speech.
  - tetranomiga 5y ago
    That's an "if" so big I don't know what your point is.
afpx 5y ago
Should teachers be allowed to say anything they want to students, regardless if it offends them? If a student asks a teacher not to call them something that offends them, is the teacher required to stop using the slur?
- ixacto 5y ago
  Yes they should offend their students because history is offensive. We should also teach about the Holocaust and read the uncensored version of huckleberry Finn, even though it may be offensive. People (students) will be offended but they will learn how history has changed, be able to think for themselves, and not fall into ideological line. If this scares the left/right establishments that is a great thing. Living in a 1-party state would suck.
  - herbstein 5y ago
    The question wasn't whether the teacher was allowed to talk about things that might upset a subset of students. In some cases, like talking about the Holocaust or slavery in the US that will not be possible to avoid entirely. The question was this: > If a student asks a teacher not to call them something that offends them, is the teacher required to stop using the slur? If a teacher calls a student a slur, or otherwise directly addresses the student using a slur/derogatory term, should this teacher stop doing this? Stop moving the goalpost.

by ixacto 5y ago

briandear 5y ago

We’ve already skipped so far down the slope that it’s unrecoverable. We’re in the midst of a Cultural Revolution. It’s bonkers how being gender-critical can get you fired or silenced or violently protested. Or how being anti-Marxist makes you a racist. Or how even having traditional values is worthy of being firebombed.

Jotra7 5y ago
This comment right here shows where discourse is at with the right wing. Screaming and crying about some imagined persecution while controlling everything. I'm so sick of it.
busterarm 5y ago
> Or how being anti-Marxist makes you a racist. Especially given the historical record on empowered Marxists and saying/doing things that are extremely racist and homophobic.
staplers 5y ago
Being pro-marxist 70 years ago meant jail time. It's always been this way, just for a different sect of people.

tetranomiga 5y ago

There's no historical reason to think that not supporting extreme speech will lead to fascism. There are historical reasons to think that curbing extremist speech protects democracy (see the Weimar Republic).

tarboreus 5y ago
Why focus only on fascism? What about authoritarianism? Look at the USSR and the modern CCP.
- tetranomiga 5y ago
  Because the west and especially the US has, very specifically, a fascism problem.
  - dang 5y ago
    It looks like your account has been using HN primarily for ideological battle. Can you please not do that? It's against the rules here because it destroys the curious conversation that HN is supposed to exist for. We ban accounts that do this, regardless of what their ideology happens to be. See [1] for more explanation. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
    - tetranomiga 5y ago
      Sorry, just saw this. Will do.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
There are also historical reasons to think that tyranny has to suppress free speech in order to survive. So even if extreme speech can lead to tyranny, free speech can lead you back out - if you can keep the tyranny from destroying the free speech.
- tetranomiga 5y ago
  That's an "if" so big I don't know what your point is.

afpx 5y ago

Should teachers be allowed to say anything they want to students, regardless if it offends them? If a student asks a teacher not to call them something that offends them, is the teacher required to stop using the slur?

ixacto 5y ago
Yes they should offend their students because history is offensive. We should also teach about the Holocaust and read the uncensored version of huckleberry Finn, even though it may be offensive. People (students) will be offended but they will learn how history has changed, be able to think for themselves, and not fall into ideological line. If this scares the left/right establishments that is a great thing. Living in a 1-party state would suck.
- herbstein 5y ago
  The question wasn't whether the teacher was allowed to talk about things that might upset a subset of students. In some cases, like talking about the Holocaust or slavery in the US that will not be possible to avoid entirely. The question was this: > If a student asks a teacher not to call them something that offends them, is the teacher required to stop using the slur? If a teacher calls a student a slur, or otherwise directly addresses the student using a slur/derogatory term, should this teacher stop doing this? Stop moving the goalpost.