5 ms·
The article mentions Epictetus (incorrectly as "Roman"; he's actually Greek). While he's fantastic[1] on his own, I think Seneca (the Roman Stoic) writes more
by kashyapc 5y ago
The article mentions Epictetus (incorrectly as "Roman"; he's actually Greek). While he's fantastic[1] on his own, I think Seneca (the Roman Stoic) writes more beautifully about pleasure and virtue—particularly in his essay 'On the Happy Life', a letter he wrote to his brother. Two out-of-context quotes from it (excuse the length):
• "But pleasure is extinguished precisely at the time when it delights. It does not have much space, and so it fills it quickly and it becomes tedious, fading after its first onset. And nothing is ever stable whose nature consists in motion. Thus there cannot even be any substance to a thing that comes in and passes through so speedily, and will perish precisely in its usage. You see, it hurtles toward its cessation, and even as it begins it looks to the end."
• "Just as in a field that has been plowed for corn some flowers grow up in between, yet all that work was not undertaken for this little plant, however much it pleases the eyes (the sower had another outcome in mind, and this supervened)—so too, pleasure is not the reward or the motive of virtue but an accessory [...]"
Read the essay in full, it contains evocative "word pictures" and several parts of it are laugh-out-loud funny.
(The translation I used for the above quotes is 'Hardship and Happiness'; Chicago University Press.)
[1] I strongly suggest to immerse yourself into this edition 'Epictetus Discourses, Fragments, and Handbook' (Robin Hard and Chris Gill; Oxford World's Classics). This is the most accurate and readable English translation.
- retzkek 5y agoNote that both the collected Dialogues (letters) of Seneca and Discourses of Epictetus are available from Standard Ebooks for free. I can't speak to the quality of the translations, but as far as e-books go they are always fantastic productions (compared to just grabbing the text off Project Gutenberg). https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/seneca/dialogues/aubrey-stewart https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/seneca/dialogues/aubrey-st... https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/epictetus/discourses/george-long https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/epictetus/discourses/georg...
- kashyapc 5y agoUnless you absolutely cannot afford to, I firmly suggest to invest in a solid English translation. A bad translation is a deal breaker. For Seneca's works, I recommend these: → 'Letters on Ethics' (University of Chicago Press) – I consider this to be the definitive English translation; it's done by two of the foremost scholars: Margaret Graver and A. A. Long. This has the full set of 124 letters. It reads extremely well, has a solid introduction with excellent notes throughout, and it's also wonderfully typeset. It can't get better than this. (This costs about 40 euros; if it's a tad pricey for you, see the alternative below. ) → 'Seneca: Selected Letters' (Oxford World's Classics) — This is a curated list of letters by a reputed scholar, Elaine Fantham. A compelling aspect about this edition is that at the beginning of each letter there's a short summary of it. → 'Seneca: Dialogues and Essays' (Oxford World's Classics) — This contains some of Seneca's famous essays on bereavement consolations, on tranquility of the mind, and more. Translation by John Davie; it reads very well. (I also consult an alternative excellent translation, 'Hardship & Happiness'; this was also, like the full set of letters above, commissioned by Chicago University Press; and translated by several scholars.) And FWIW, I've written[1] last year about suggested English translations for broader Stoicism-related works. Translations matter. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990579
- retzkek 5y agoThanks for the recommendations, I'll check them out. It's too bad the older translations aren't as good, I love that so much classical work is available for free, which greatly increases the accessibility of it. Some people won't (or can't) consider paying any amount of money to try something they may only get a few pages into.