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Most people have no idea just how massive the biological advantage is. Movies and popular culture have conditioned people to think that females can hold their o
by esja 5y ago
Most people have no idea just how massive the biological advantage is. Movies and popular culture have conditioned people to think that females can hold their own against men. Individuals can, in some contexts, where the statistical distribution overlaps. For example a mediocre middle aged man can be beaten in strength or speed sports by an athletic 20-something woman. But at the tails of the distribution, where the competitions occur, the advantages of the Y chromosome and male puberty are insurmountable.
Just look at these female world records compared to 13-15 year old high school boys: https://boysvswomen.com/#/world-record https://boysvswomen.com/#/world-record
Hubbard is also 43 years old. There is no precedent for any human female being competitive in this sport at this age, not even the most freakishly talented female weightlifters in history, not even the Soviet drug cheats.
Kuinini Manumua, the Tongan woman who would have been given this place if not for Hubbard, is 21 years old.
Feagaiga Stowers, who placed second behind Hubbard in the Pacific Games in her native Samoa in 2018, is 20 years old.
This problem cannot be solved or even properly discussed without properly acknowledging biological reality.
This disparity is why women fought so hard for sex-based separation in the first place. I cannot understand why we would roll back those protections by considering “gender” equivalent to sex. It can only hurt women.
- zaarn 5y agoWhat about intersex females or women with androgen sensitivity? They are XX but might still get "the advantage of growing up with testosterone". Or women who have testosterone insensitivity and an XY chromosome pair (ie, are in all factors but their sex chromosomes female)?
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y agoThere will always be edge cases, and they should be addressed on an individual basis. Changing the rules that affect 99% of the athletes to benefit the 1% edge cases doesn't make sense.
- zaarn 5y agoWhy not find a set of rules that works for 100% of people instead of leaving out the 1% for no other reason than "we have to continue with the rules we established as tradition".
- alisonkisk 5y agoBecause there are no such rules. It's a competition. Only a few people can win, and any rules are biased. If you rolled back the clock and tried again, Michael Phelps would never be a champion weightlifter, and the best weightlifter would never be a champion swimmer.
- zaarn 5y agoThere are in fact rules. Currently for olympic distance running at 400 meters or further, a female must present with a certain maximum level of testosterone. This rule was specifically made to exclude an intersex female-presenting runner who excelled. Due to medical complications, she cannot take medication to surpress her testosterone levels on a long term basis. So yes, such rules exist.
- jjk166 5y agoAnd a boxer who for medical reasons can not reduce their weight to a lower weight category just competes in the higher weight category. It shouldn't matter why you exceed a certain threshold, so long as the thresholds are consistent and relevant you should compete in your category.
- flippinburgers 5y agoThis what-about mentality that fragments the population into increasingly small groups while expecting everyone else to adhere needs a course correction.
- zaarn 5y agoI don't want to fragment, I want these people to be recognized as what they identify; women. Even if they don't have the right chromosomes, there is atleast a dozen reasons someone might still have grown up as female or identifies female.
- stnmtn 5y agoI fully believe trans women are women, but I'm genuinely curious as to what the feminist response to stuff like these competitions should be when it's clear that trans women have a distinct and irrerperable advantage over biological women. What potential problems would there be from having a biological women competition, and a trans women competition? Genuinely curious as to your answer and I am asking this in good faith
- zaarn 5y agoAnd what is the response that people who undergo female hormone treatments will have a distinct disadvantage over men who've not done that? Should they have to continue in a field they have this disadvantage in?
- alentist 5y agoDo you feel the same way about race?
- dirtyid 5y ago2 divisions: XX only division. Unlimited division for everyone else.
- alisonkisk 5y agoWhy should women's championships even exist? Isn't that just a pity prize? Either design a game where women tend to perform better (like certain forms of gymnastics) or where they tend to be more interested due to the cultural aspects (like cheer/dance), or let women compete in other areas of endeavor. Why have leagues for women in basketball but not "men under 6ft tall"? Is it to encourage girls and women to be physically active for a health life? If so, so we need competition for that? (I'd say no -- boys and men who aren't eite talent are also pushed out by the focus on competition) Now if people like women sports due to the style of play in WNBA or Women's soccer or whatever, that's great; just make the rules and marketing and such to promote that style, and women will tend to be the participants.
- bagacrap 5y agoThis post is generally ridiculous, but I will point out that we do have weight categories for boxing. I suppose we don't have height categories for basketball because no one wants to watch that.
- ajuc 5y ago> I suppose we don't have height categories for basketball because no one wants to watch that. I would. Then it would be more about skill than strength and height, like football.
- golergka 5y agoBut wouldn't you, in a 160-180cm bracket, for example, end up with nearly all players being 178-180cm? And then 158-160cm for the next one. Imagine what drama would happen if a promising teenage athlete would not stop growing at 159 and got 2 extra centimetres, for example: he would completely lose his shot to be a professional. People can adjust their weight with a diet, but they can't really change their height.
- ajuc 5y ago3 cm isn't that much of a deal. 20 cm is. And if 10 cm categories are too wide they can be adjusted to 5 cm. I would actually change the rules in olympic basketball to have 1 player from each category :)