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Old man opinion here: I really like grafana, personally I'd probably host it myself even now. (At all previous companies I did.) Its well contained and even wi

Old man opinion here: I really like grafana, personally I'd probably host it myself even now. (At all previous companies I did.) Its well contained and even with alerting its simple to set up and sync state (assuming you are using a hosted database, which can be expensive) Where my opinion gets controversial: I dislike Prometheus, and I really don't like influx. I much prefer graphite. Influx has higher temporal resolution, and an SQL interface (its the SQL interface I don't like) Prometheus has a pull model, which I can see the appeal of, but I don't really like. But it deals with ephemeral metrics much better (however you need a gateway to cache the metrics, as they might not get pulled in time.) The issue is that graphite's interface is much better for discovering and filtering/transforming your data. I'm not the worlds greatest SQL person, so I can't do that much complex stuff, I also don't know how to do maths in SQL well. With graphite I don't need to worry, all the functions are there in menu, derivative? yes, all the averaging? mostDeviant? yes. Graphite made making graphs quick and easy, I don't think I can say the same for influx or prometheus. I know that all sorts of non technical people can use graphite/grafana. I'm less convinced that they can use Prometheus or influx as well without training.

sofixa 5y ago
> Influx has higher temporal resolution, and an SQL interface (its the SQL interface I don't like) SQL was too limited, that's why they did Flux, their new query language. It's weird and has a learning curve, but powerful.
- KaiserPro 5y ago
  > It's weird and has a learning curve, but powerful. I don't doubt that, but teaching it to business analysts, product owners and the like is a real headache. I'm sure I would grow to love it, but then it would require me to make dashboards for other people. Getting them to make them themselves is living the dream
- gcbirzan 5y ago
  SQL is not limited, InfluxQL is. And, flux is incredibly verbose and error prone (at least a year ago when we last looked at it). However, with the transformations in grafana, there's no reason with flux, in the majority of cases.
  - jstrong 5y ago
    influxql is limited, yes, but much less verbose for time-based aggregation than the equivalent sql queries, which is why I like using it for adhoc visualization and inspectibility. (I don't like flux). to me it's great for a limited purpose. writing the equivalent sql queries would drive me up the wall.
    - gcbirzan 5y ago
      For sure, we were evaluating timescaledb and influx, we quickly came to the conclusion that while a programmer could write SQL queries to do what influxql lets you do, they're very complicated compared to the builtin UI that even non tech people can understand.
- kungito 5y ago
  It honestly doesn't feel powerfull at all. I admit, I have started using Influx 2.0 during beta, but the experience has been horrible. I first tried to write all my logic in Influx and have now over few months moved everything back into Rust with just lines which go directly into graphs staying in influx. The language as it is is ok, it's very basic, but the runtime and the development environment is very unfinished. So many internal errors whatever you do, the responses are slow to be received because I guess so few people try to write anything more complicated in Flux, the debugging is very hard. You can't even print out single values, everything has to be displayed in graphs. They support using arrays and single values but you just get convoluted internal errors and compiler panics if you don't write correctly in a language without explicit typing.
Proven 5y ago
I completely agree, especially on the usability of Graphite. Casual users can create own dashboards - just get the data into Graphite. InfluxDB has some additional advantages, but they meed medium to large scale or advanced use to matter. For my use case (smaller, simple environment), Graphite is great.
pqvst 5y ago
When we were self-hosting Grafana with an influx data store writing queries was actually very easy since Grafana provides a "query editor" to generate the SQL for Influx. Ironically that was much easier to use than InfluxDB Cloud's own solution (which now uses a completely different query language). Grafana Cloud seems to mostly advertise the pull model, whereas we were really looking for a push model. I'm glad I figured out how to get that to work with Graphite, since Grafana Cloud offers both Prometheus and Graphite. Now given that Grafana Cloud's free-tier covers our needs I'm glad we no longer have to maintain a self-hosted version (and we're definitely getting better performance now).
- KaiserPro 5y ago
  I should have written that I fully understand why you'd want to sling it out and be hosted by someone else. I'm a devop/sre/pe/sysadmin so I have a motivation to keep metrics in my firm grasp. Given the price point and performance, for small organizations it'd be madness to Not get grafana cloud to host it.
wperron 5y ago
> Prometheus has a pull model, which I can see the appeal of, but I don't really like. That's such an antiquated statement at this point. Prometheus might have been pull-only in a distant past, but the remote write protocol has been alive and well for a long time now, and it works amazingly well, at surprising scale.
heipei 5y ago
I use Grafana religiously every day, rely on it for metrics, long-term trends and alerting. I also use Telegraf with InfluxDB, but thanks to Grafana I've never had to write a single InfluxDB statement. Also: It's not just higher temporal resolution, it's having an actual time-series database vs a metrics database. With InfluxDB (and all other event-based databases) I can go in after the fact and just plot the CPU load for one specific host, or a group of hosts, or plot the HTTP requests that took longer than 200ms, hit a specific endpoint and finished with a specific HTTP status code. If you don't keep the raw measurements you always have to make decisions about which groups you aggregate down to ahead of time. Just something to keep in mind.
deleted 5y ago
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sofixa 5y ago

> Influx has higher temporal resolution, and an SQL interface (its the SQL interface I don't like) SQL was too limited, that's why they did Flux, their new query language. It's weird and has a learning curve, but powerful.

KaiserPro 5y ago
> It's weird and has a learning curve, but powerful. I don't doubt that, but teaching it to business analysts, product owners and the like is a real headache. I'm sure I would grow to love it, but then it would require me to make dashboards for other people. Getting them to make them themselves is living the dream
gcbirzan 5y ago
SQL is not limited, InfluxQL is. And, flux is incredibly verbose and error prone (at least a year ago when we last looked at it). However, with the transformations in grafana, there's no reason with flux, in the majority of cases.
- jstrong 5y ago
  influxql is limited, yes, but much less verbose for time-based aggregation than the equivalent sql queries, which is why I like using it for adhoc visualization and inspectibility. (I don't like flux). to me it's great for a limited purpose. writing the equivalent sql queries would drive me up the wall.
  - gcbirzan 5y ago
    For sure, we were evaluating timescaledb and influx, we quickly came to the conclusion that while a programmer could write SQL queries to do what influxql lets you do, they're very complicated compared to the builtin UI that even non tech people can understand.
kungito 5y ago
It honestly doesn't feel powerfull at all. I admit, I have started using Influx 2.0 during beta, but the experience has been horrible. I first tried to write all my logic in Influx and have now over few months moved everything back into Rust with just lines which go directly into graphs staying in influx. The language as it is is ok, it's very basic, but the runtime and the development environment is very unfinished. So many internal errors whatever you do, the responses are slow to be received because I guess so few people try to write anything more complicated in Flux, the debugging is very hard. You can't even print out single values, everything has to be displayed in graphs. They support using arrays and single values but you just get convoluted internal errors and compiler panics if you don't write correctly in a language without explicit typing.

Proven 5y ago

I completely agree, especially on the usability of Graphite. Casual users can create own dashboards - just get the data into Graphite. InfluxDB has some additional advantages, but they meed medium to large scale or advanced use to matter. For my use case (smaller, simple environment), Graphite is great.

pqvst 5y ago

When we were self-hosting Grafana with an influx data store writing queries was actually very easy since Grafana provides a "query editor" to generate the SQL for Influx. Ironically that was much easier to use than InfluxDB Cloud's own solution (which now uses a completely different query language). Grafana Cloud seems to mostly advertise the pull model, whereas we were really looking for a push model. I'm glad I figured out how to get that to work with Graphite, since Grafana Cloud offers both Prometheus and Graphite. Now given that Grafana Cloud's free-tier covers our needs I'm glad we no longer have to maintain a self-hosted version (and we're definitely getting better performance now).

KaiserPro 5y ago
I should have written that I fully understand why you'd want to sling it out and be hosted by someone else. I'm a devop/sre/pe/sysadmin so I have a motivation to keep metrics in my firm grasp. Given the price point and performance, for small organizations it'd be madness to Not get grafana cloud to host it.

wperron 5y ago

> Prometheus has a pull model, which I can see the appeal of, but I don't really like. That's such an antiquated statement at this point. Prometheus might have been pull-only in a distant past, but the remote write protocol has been alive and well for a long time now, and it works amazingly well, at surprising scale.

heipei 5y ago

I use Grafana religiously every day, rely on it for metrics, long-term trends and alerting. I also use Telegraf with InfluxDB, but thanks to Grafana I've never had to write a single InfluxDB statement. Also: It's not just higher temporal resolution, it's having an actual time-series database vs a metrics database. With InfluxDB (and all other event-based databases) I can go in after the fact and just plot the CPU load for one specific host, or a group of hosts, or plot the HTTP requests that took longer than 200ms, hit a specific endpoint and finished with a specific HTTP status code. If you don't keep the raw measurements you always have to make decisions about which groups you aggregate down to ahead of time. Just something to keep in mind.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]