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Where I live most people with dogs either let them poop in nature or clean it up. They certainly don't come into my garden to do their business. Telling someon

Where I live most people with dogs either let them poop in nature or clean it up. They certainly don't come into my garden to do their business. Telling someone to take a huge pet with huge responsibilities just to get rid of neighborhood cats pooping in their garden is a bit of a non-solution. But I guess, it's all funny when you own and love cats. But, please try to imagine what it can be like for your neighbors who only experience the down sides of your pet. To me there is no difference between (huge) rats or cats coming into my garden, except the government allows me to kill the rats.

laurowyn 5y ago
This, in my opinion, is why we can't have nice things. Calling for the death of any living thing that we disagree with isn't okay. And trapping an animal indoors where it can't exercise its natural tendencies is also a non-solution. I completely understand the want and need to protect your property from intruders, animal or human. But calling for the death of any and all animals that enter your property is borderline psychopathic IMO. There are humane ways to deter animals from entering your property. Something as simple as spraying a cat with water will deter it effectively - no need to murder it. Other options include putting down plastic spikes (that don't cause injury) on garden fences, growing certain plants which cats dislike the smell of, or even sprays that cats dislike. And for future reference; if your neighbours cats are pooping in your garden beds, keep the surface of the soil moist. Cats (generally) won't dig in wet soil, and will instead find somewhere else to go. And your plants will appreciate the extra water.
- teekert 5y ago
  I'm not killing any animals, I wouldn't even kill the rats, I was just indicating the arbitrary line between vermin and pets. We have frogs, hedgehogs and in parts of our town sometimes even a fox (and they kill chickens if you don't close the hen). I think it's beautiful. Not the same as the high concentration of cats we have in our urban area. One of our neighbors has 4 cats, and they all shit in the area directly around her yard. And they are the reason I can't leave the chickens alone outside during the day. And believe me, nothing deters cats, me and my cat-less neighbors have tried everything under the sun. I splashed them with water multiple times already. Sure, it's all fun when the cat sits in a box and is cuddly. But it's a roaming predator that spreads excrement and disease. And if you don't cuddle with it regularly, that's all it is. And how can you tell me to keep my soil moist, do you know what an amount of work that is? Cat owners should come and keep my soil moist. Or, just keep their cat inside. If you love your animals, go live on a farm or in the woods. The city is no place for pets like cats.
  - evanelias 5y ago
    > I can't leave the chickens alone outside during the day. ... > If you love your animals, go live on a farm or in the woods. The city is no place for pets like cats. So you say cats shouldn't be in cities, but chickens should be? Cats have been living in cities for many centuries. Some cities have more outdoor cats than others. If you live in a city with too many outdoor cats, you could always try moving to a different city, or you could follow your own advice and go live in a more rural area.
    - teekert 5y ago
      I have to leave because it’s normal that cats shit in other people’s gardens? How would they feel if I let my chickens roam free, shitting everywhere, giving your pregnant wife toxoplasmosis, picking at the eyes of your small pets in your garden?
      - evanelias 5y ago
        You don't "have" to leave. Nor do the cat owners. My point is you can't arbitrarily and unilaterally decide that one type of pet is OK and another type of pet "doesn't belong in cities" and should be banished to a farm. There are far more cat owners than chicken owners in cities! And I am sure some people do not like the sounds or smells of having a neighbor with chickens. It sounds like your real issue is that your neighbors are irresponsible jerks who don't put any effort into managing their pets' behavior. I can relate -- I sure wish my upstairs neighbors would hire a dog trainer, instead of loudly shouting "stop it!" at their dog who audibly barks over a hundred times a day. It's utterly ruining my quality of life. But I wouldn't proclaim that dogs "don't belong in cities" just because my upstairs neighbors happen to be jerks.
        teekert 5y ago
        Well, I guess we agree then. Before we got the chickens we told both neighbors and assured them that if they ever felt bothered by them they should say so and we would look for a solution. Certainly if one would turn out to be a rooster we would take action. So far they never make sounds and they just roam around our (100 m2) garden, on the grass all day. Neighbors with cats act annoyed when you talk to them about their cats roaming the gardens. Because cats are normal. I feel for you regarding the dog situation. honestly if you would ask me, an apartment complex is no place for a big dog. We held off on taking a dog because there is no place for it to run in the immediate area. But indeed it probably wouldn't be a problem if your neighbors acted responsibly, and that is where indeed all problems originate.
nosianu 5y ago
> They certainly don't come into my garden to do their business. It's only a small fraction of dog owners but in my city - and a lot more after COVID isolation which seems to have increased pet dog population noticeably around here - dog poop is regularly found on city side walks. I can find articles with complaints about dog poop on (for me, German) sidewalks easily, much harder than finding complaints about cat poop (Google search, German words: endless list for dogs, a single page with only two real matches). Of course, a big part of it, apart from cats trying to hide theirs, is that dogs are forced to be on sidewalks by having to be on a leash so it's not a completely fair comparison for dogs. The cats (mostly in the more affluent suburbs that I live close to so I walk through there a lot in the evenings because there's a lot of green) don't leave any traces that I ever saw (I see one to a few cats every evening though, they are not all kept inside). As a cat lover (without a cat since my living conditions don't make for a good cat space), I hope some day we get genetically modified cats that have no interest in birds. We have plenty of rats and mice around here though, in the shrubbery. Easy to hear and - if you care to look - see them run underneath the fallen leaves at dusk. Definitely would be great to have more car- and bird-repsecting cats around here, in the greener parts of the city!
- teekert 5y ago
  I guess we agree, it's not about cats v dogs, people that let their dog poop on the street without cleaning it up should also go straight to jail...

laurowyn 5y ago

This, in my opinion, is why we can't have nice things. Calling for the death of any living thing that we disagree with isn't okay. And trapping an animal indoors where it can't exercise its natural tendencies is also a non-solution. I completely understand the want and need to protect your property from intruders, animal or human. But calling for the death of any and all animals that enter your property is borderline psychopathic IMO. There are humane ways to deter animals from entering your property. Something as simple as spraying a cat with water will deter it effectively - no need to murder it. Other options include putting down plastic spikes (that don't cause injury) on garden fences, growing certain plants which cats dislike the smell of, or even sprays that cats dislike. And for future reference; if your neighbours cats are pooping in your garden beds, keep the surface of the soil moist. Cats (generally) won't dig in wet soil, and will instead find somewhere else to go. And your plants will appreciate the extra water.

teekert 5y ago
I'm not killing any animals, I wouldn't even kill the rats, I was just indicating the arbitrary line between vermin and pets. We have frogs, hedgehogs and in parts of our town sometimes even a fox (and they kill chickens if you don't close the hen). I think it's beautiful. Not the same as the high concentration of cats we have in our urban area. One of our neighbors has 4 cats, and they all shit in the area directly around her yard. And they are the reason I can't leave the chickens alone outside during the day. And believe me, nothing deters cats, me and my cat-less neighbors have tried everything under the sun. I splashed them with water multiple times already. Sure, it's all fun when the cat sits in a box and is cuddly. But it's a roaming predator that spreads excrement and disease. And if you don't cuddle with it regularly, that's all it is. And how can you tell me to keep my soil moist, do you know what an amount of work that is? Cat owners should come and keep my soil moist. Or, just keep their cat inside. If you love your animals, go live on a farm or in the woods. The city is no place for pets like cats.
- evanelias 5y ago
  > I can't leave the chickens alone outside during the day. ... > If you love your animals, go live on a farm or in the woods. The city is no place for pets like cats. So you say cats shouldn't be in cities, but chickens should be? Cats have been living in cities for many centuries. Some cities have more outdoor cats than others. If you live in a city with too many outdoor cats, you could always try moving to a different city, or you could follow your own advice and go live in a more rural area.
  - teekert 5y ago
    I have to leave because it’s normal that cats shit in other people’s gardens? How would they feel if I let my chickens roam free, shitting everywhere, giving your pregnant wife toxoplasmosis, picking at the eyes of your small pets in your garden?
    - evanelias 5y ago
      You don't "have" to leave. Nor do the cat owners. My point is you can't arbitrarily and unilaterally decide that one type of pet is OK and another type of pet "doesn't belong in cities" and should be banished to a farm. There are far more cat owners than chicken owners in cities! And I am sure some people do not like the sounds or smells of having a neighbor with chickens. It sounds like your real issue is that your neighbors are irresponsible jerks who don't put any effort into managing their pets' behavior. I can relate -- I sure wish my upstairs neighbors would hire a dog trainer, instead of loudly shouting "stop it!" at their dog who audibly barks over a hundred times a day. It's utterly ruining my quality of life. But I wouldn't proclaim that dogs "don't belong in cities" just because my upstairs neighbors happen to be jerks.
      - teekert 5y ago
        Well, I guess we agree then. Before we got the chickens we told both neighbors and assured them that if they ever felt bothered by them they should say so and we would look for a solution. Certainly if one would turn out to be a rooster we would take action. So far they never make sounds and they just roam around our (100 m2) garden, on the grass all day. Neighbors with cats act annoyed when you talk to them about their cats roaming the gardens. Because cats are normal. I feel for you regarding the dog situation. honestly if you would ask me, an apartment complex is no place for a big dog. We held off on taking a dog because there is no place for it to run in the immediate area. But indeed it probably wouldn't be a problem if your neighbors acted responsibly, and that is where indeed all problems originate.

nosianu 5y ago

> They certainly don't come into my garden to do their business. It's only a small fraction of dog owners but in my city - and a lot more after COVID isolation which seems to have increased pet dog population noticeably around here - dog poop is regularly found on city side walks. I can find articles with complaints about dog poop on (for me, German) sidewalks easily, much harder than finding complaints about cat poop (Google search, German words: endless list for dogs, a single page with only two real matches). Of course, a big part of it, apart from cats trying to hide theirs, is that dogs are forced to be on sidewalks by having to be on a leash so it's not a completely fair comparison for dogs. The cats (mostly in the more affluent suburbs that I live close to so I walk through there a lot in the evenings because there's a lot of green) don't leave any traces that I ever saw (I see one to a few cats every evening though, they are not all kept inside). As a cat lover (without a cat since my living conditions don't make for a good cat space), I hope some day we get genetically modified cats that have no interest in birds. We have plenty of rats and mice around here though, in the shrubbery. Easy to hear and - if you care to look - see them run underneath the fallen leaves at dusk. Definitely would be great to have more car- and bird-repsecting cats around here, in the greener parts of the city!

teekert 5y ago
I guess we agree, it's not about cats v dogs, people that let their dog poop on the street without cleaning it up should also go straight to jail...