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Actually, keeping your cat inside should be the norm. Cats are, essentially, a highly invasive species that has been linked to massive decline and sometimes ext

Actually, keeping your cat inside should be the norm. Cats are, essentially, a highly invasive species that has been linked to massive decline and sometimes extinctions of local fauna.

nix23 5y ago
>Actually, keeping your cat inside should be the norm. Not in Europe, maybe new zealand. But in Europe we had/have wildcats until we destroyed the large forests. And nearly ever farmer depends on a cat to keep vermin's in check, if you have to keep your cat inside DONT BUY A CAT.
- clydethefrog 5y ago
  The majority of cats in Europe is city cats that demolish the local bird and critter population. https://academic.oup.com/jel/article/32/3/391/5640440 https://academic.oup.com/jel/article/32/3/391/5640440
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    Still autochtonous (more or less) species. Old world birds evolved with them for thousands years and somehow they will not have problems to survive. We know to do more research about the cat effect on that fauna instead to just repeat one preliminary study. We need to know for example, if there is a percentage of those migrant birds allegedly chased by cats in US that just crashed against a window or were stunded by pesticides. The problem in that case is not the cat, is the glass pane, or the absence of trees. ............... Second point. Some scientists hypothesize that Toxoplasmosis remain in the body alive for years and is a chronic disease. We should however take in mind that this is not the main current of thinking. We know that parasites don't survive usually when end in the wrong host because immune response works "like this" and "like that" and because the temperature, organ structure or life cycle of the true host, matter for the parasite survival. I can't see why Toxoplasma should behave different that the other ten thousands of cases, or why the immune system should make an excepcion here.
    - pvaldes 5y ago
      -> We need to do more research -> Were stunTed Sleepy day, yawn.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    The RSPB in the UK don't seem to think that cat predation is a significant factor in bird species decline - https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/ https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-... "Those bird species which have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. Research shows that these declines are usually caused by habitat change or loss, particularly on farmland."
    - Tiktaalik 5y ago
      Yeah cats have been around in europe so long that presumably at this point they've already killed all the native species that were gonna get killed.
- Tenoke 5y ago
  I live in a city and letting my cats outside is not feasible. They are also perfectly happy indoors and I doubt that street cats live better lives.
  - nix23 5y ago
    >I doubt that street cats live better lives. I don't talk about street-cats, i talk about cats who can come and go as they wish.
    - Tenoke 5y ago
      Given how many of those get scars from fighting or disappear I'm not very convinced those are happier either. Dogs chained to a flat - sure, that'd be clearly not great for them but cats seem very comfortable being indoors only.
      - nix23 5y ago
        WOW you have a pretty twisted mind about cats...had 4 cat and non of them had scars..well one of them had scars but it was a Norwegian forestcat who got in fights with fox's...and dog's and my shoe laces....but hey i hope you never have kids. BTW: Now i have a Dog and he can come a go as he wish...podengo mix...so half dog half cat.
  - Tiktaalik 5y ago
    Yeah I have friends that work in shelters and cat sanctuaries and given the unhealthy state of the cats that come in to them, it's pretty crystal clear that life outside is not at all that good for a cat. When I walk about my 'hood I do see pet cats enjoying a time being outside, but it does not take much bad luck for their fortunes to turn rapidly, due to getting lost and deadly encounters with cars and coyotes.
adflux 5y ago
Despite the large numbers of birds killed by cats in gardens, there is no clear scientific evidence that such mortality is causing bird populations to decline. This may be surprising, but many millions of birds die naturally every year, mainly through starvation, disease or other forms of predation. There is evidence that cats tend to take weak or sickly birds. We also know that of the millions of baby birds hatched each year, most will die before they reach breeding age. This is also quite natural, and each pair needs only to rear two young that survive to breeding age to replace themselves and maintain the population. It is likely that most of the birds killed by cats would have died anyway from other causes before the next breeding season, so cats are unlikely to have a major impact on populations. If their predation was additional to these other causes of mortality, this might have a serious impact on bird populations. Those bird species which have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. Research shows that these declines are usually caused by habitat change or loss, particularly on farmland. From https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/ https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-...
laurowyn 5y ago
You should probably qualify this with location. Countries that have had domestic and wild cats for millennia are mostly unaffected by domestic cats being outside, especially in urban areas where wildlife is overrun by vermin. Yes, there are plenty of examples of cats causing issues, but only in locations where they were introduced and not where they are native. Australia is a good example, as domesticated cats have become a nuisance and bred in the wild. But then you look at what has happened since the cat population was culled, with the many videos of mice on farms. Removing them isn't a perfect solution, as they've been around long enough to become a part of the ecosystem and not just a destructive force. I would also qualify this with; cats should be kept inside whilst in heat. Many of the issues caused by cats are due to owners letting their cats reproduce. Where cats have a good supply of food, naturally they will reproduce up to a balancing point with the available food. Many cat owners are unaware (or just don't care) about cats reproducing and the impact that has. Spaying/neutering is also a viable option if owners don't want to have to lock their cats in during their heat cycle - cats birthing can be traumatic for the mother, so this can be a major benefit. Similarly, male cats will mate with multiple females so neutering is many times more effective than spaying alone.
- Nursie 5y ago
  > Spaying/neutering is also a viable option Spaying/neutering should be the default option, unless you have a specific wish to breed your cats, and then you should have a plan for it and do so responsibly.

Actually, keeping your cat inside should be the norm. Cats are, essentially, a highly invasive species that has been linked to massive decline and sometimes extinctions of local fauna.

nix23 5y ago

>Actually, keeping your cat inside should be the norm. Not in Europe, maybe new zealand. But in Europe we had/have wildcats until we destroyed the large forests. And nearly ever farmer depends on a cat to keep vermin's in check, if you have to keep your cat inside DONT BUY A CAT.

clydethefrog 5y ago
The majority of cats in Europe is city cats that demolish the local bird and critter population. https://academic.oup.com/jel/article/32/3/391/5640440 https://academic.oup.com/jel/article/32/3/391/5640440
- pvaldes 5y ago
  Still autochtonous (more or less) species. Old world birds evolved with them for thousands years and somehow they will not have problems to survive. We know to do more research about the cat effect on that fauna instead to just repeat one preliminary study. We need to know for example, if there is a percentage of those migrant birds allegedly chased by cats in US that just crashed against a window or were stunded by pesticides. The problem in that case is not the cat, is the glass pane, or the absence of trees. ............... Second point. Some scientists hypothesize that Toxoplasmosis remain in the body alive for years and is a chronic disease. We should however take in mind that this is not the main current of thinking. We know that parasites don't survive usually when end in the wrong host because immune response works "like this" and "like that" and because the temperature, organ structure or life cycle of the true host, matter for the parasite survival. I can't see why Toxoplasma should behave different that the other ten thousands of cases, or why the immune system should make an excepcion here.
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    -> We need to do more research -> Were stunTed Sleepy day, yawn.
- Nursie 5y ago
  The RSPB in the UK don't seem to think that cat predation is a significant factor in bird species decline - https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/ https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-... "Those bird species which have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. Research shows that these declines are usually caused by habitat change or loss, particularly on farmland."
  - Tiktaalik 5y ago
    Yeah cats have been around in europe so long that presumably at this point they've already killed all the native species that were gonna get killed.
Tenoke 5y ago
I live in a city and letting my cats outside is not feasible. They are also perfectly happy indoors and I doubt that street cats live better lives.
- nix23 5y ago
  >I doubt that street cats live better lives. I don't talk about street-cats, i talk about cats who can come and go as they wish.
  - Tenoke 5y ago
    Given how many of those get scars from fighting or disappear I'm not very convinced those are happier either. Dogs chained to a flat - sure, that'd be clearly not great for them but cats seem very comfortable being indoors only.
    - nix23 5y ago
      WOW you have a pretty twisted mind about cats...had 4 cat and non of them had scars..well one of them had scars but it was a Norwegian forestcat who got in fights with fox's...and dog's and my shoe laces....but hey i hope you never have kids. BTW: Now i have a Dog and he can come a go as he wish...podengo mix...so half dog half cat.
- Tiktaalik 5y ago
  Yeah I have friends that work in shelters and cat sanctuaries and given the unhealthy state of the cats that come in to them, it's pretty crystal clear that life outside is not at all that good for a cat. When I walk about my 'hood I do see pet cats enjoying a time being outside, but it does not take much bad luck for their fortunes to turn rapidly, due to getting lost and deadly encounters with cars and coyotes.

adflux 5y ago

Despite the large numbers of birds killed by cats in gardens, there is no clear scientific evidence that such mortality is causing bird populations to decline. This may be surprising, but many millions of birds die naturally every year, mainly through starvation, disease or other forms of predation. There is evidence that cats tend to take weak or sickly birds. We also know that of the millions of baby birds hatched each year, most will die before they reach breeding age. This is also quite natural, and each pair needs only to rear two young that survive to breeding age to replace themselves and maintain the population. It is likely that most of the birds killed by cats would have died anyway from other causes before the next breeding season, so cats are unlikely to have a major impact on populations. If their predation was additional to these other causes of mortality, this might have a serious impact on bird populations. Those bird species which have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. Research shows that these declines are usually caused by habitat change or loss, particularly on farmland. From https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/ https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-...

laurowyn 5y ago

You should probably qualify this with location. Countries that have had domestic and wild cats for millennia are mostly unaffected by domestic cats being outside, especially in urban areas where wildlife is overrun by vermin. Yes, there are plenty of examples of cats causing issues, but only in locations where they were introduced and not where they are native. Australia is a good example, as domesticated cats have become a nuisance and bred in the wild. But then you look at what has happened since the cat population was culled, with the many videos of mice on farms. Removing them isn't a perfect solution, as they've been around long enough to become a part of the ecosystem and not just a destructive force. I would also qualify this with; cats should be kept inside whilst in heat. Many of the issues caused by cats are due to owners letting their cats reproduce. Where cats have a good supply of food, naturally they will reproduce up to a balancing point with the available food. Many cat owners are unaware (or just don't care) about cats reproducing and the impact that has. Spaying/neutering is also a viable option if owners don't want to have to lock their cats in during their heat cycle - cats birthing can be traumatic for the mother, so this can be a major benefit. Similarly, male cats will mate with multiple females so neutering is many times more effective than spaying alone.

Nursie 5y ago
> Spaying/neutering is also a viable option Spaying/neutering should be the default option, unless you have a specific wish to breed your cats, and then you should have a plan for it and do so responsibly.