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> Still no grid-gap in Safari for iPhone. Ah, you're sad that Safari doesn't implement the full CSS Box Alignment Module Level 3 spec - which is still a draft

> Still no grid-gap in Safari for iPhone. Ah, you're sad that Safari doesn't implement the full CSS Box Alignment Module Level 3 spec - which is still a draft version (so is continuously changing) - whose latest version was published just a week ago ?

tinus_hn 5y ago
Of course if your standard is ‘whatever Chrome does’ it’s different
rektide 5y ago
lol the CSS Box Alignment Module spec started in 2012[1]. it's not exactly cutting edge. it is a bit hard to properly nail down this behavior, sure. but this is far from cutting edge. even when the spec was made, it was more trying to quantify what most of the browsers had already steered towards. apple is a serious foot dragger in every manner on the web. there's endless complaining about the web and "back in my day web pages were pages damn it" (aka demanding we all write & download native apps again for everything on every platform) and griping about modern capabilities (usually notifications (cause they're overtly terrible. and someday someone's going to write a browser that deals with permissions ambiently rather than with modals & Google's going to look like a real shit for permission spamming the web)). the truth is safari is a terrible dragging scourge and really basic stuff like box model isn't implemented until apple absolutely positively has to, and even then they break their stuff regularly. trying to be all "the spec isn't finallliiizzzeeddd" doesn't make me feel any better. I am sad that Safari doesn't have ~33% of CSS Box Alignment Module after a decade of it being reasonably well expectable. I am mad Apple roadblocks the web by refusing to allow other browsers to run or compete. [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-css3-align-20120612/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-css3-align-20120612/
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > lol the CSS Box Alignment Module spec started in 2012 lol and in 2012 it didn't have even half what it has now and the last change to that spec was only a week ago > I am sad that Safari doesn't have ~33% of CSS Box Alignment Module after a decade gap wasn't in the spec a decade ago. I, for one, am glad that Safari actually waits for the spec to stabilize bit instead of rushing headlong into something that will likely change.
  - rektide 5y ago
    https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-css-align-3-20170906/#gaps https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-css-align-3-20170906/#gaps gaps is 4 years old. this company is trash & awful & their pathetic negligence is fucking up the web something wicked. it's obvious as fuck what sabotage this is & it sucks. this isnt caution it's anti-competitive against the internet. that the spec is changing is a huge cop out. apple can't drag their feet for years on every spec while preventing apple users from getting a better web experience, but they do. it's a trashfire way to treat the web, to hold it back. then to be constantly breaking features? apple doesn't just not care, they chronically underfund & debilitate the web.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      > gaps is 4 years old. Oh, look. You managed to look it up. So, it's no longer "over a decade old" but "this particular thing that I think Safari must implement is 4 years old". Meanwhile: - that "4 year old" part of the specification didn't fully specify how percentage lengths work - the behaviour of 'normal' wasn't specified - gap shorthand only applied to grid containers (now it also applies to other containers) - gap shorthand was underspecified (how it's animated, what are initial values etc.) And that's only the things that I could immediately see. And this is only for one property out of dozens in a single standard out of thousands. > it's obvious as fuck what sabotage this is Whatever this is, it's definitely not sabotage. > apple can't drag their feet for years on every spec while preventing apple users from getting a better web experience, but they do. They can, and they will. Is the web a worse experience? Can't say a feel a difference because you didn't get that one single toy you so passionately care about. > it's a trashfire way to treat the web, to hold it back. Safari is only slightly behind Firefox on the number of features (aka Web APIs): https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence
      - rektide 5y ago
        I don't get why anyone would so aggresively go out of their way to carry water for a company that doesn't even allow users to use a modern web browser if they wanted to. are you paid to write this? what is your reason for being such an apple boosterist? do you really think waiting for specs to stabize is critical important to your day to day, that not having emerging features somehow saves you anything? why does absence buy you? standardization requires implementation. we need the data. we need people to try things to succeed in making good standards. in my view, waiting till it's done to start is not an option. it's how not to make a standard. I don't understand why you would work so hard to justify anti-web behaviors, particularly ones users are so vulgarly locked into.

tinus_hn 5y ago

Of course if your standard is ‘whatever Chrome does’ it’s different

rektide 5y ago

lol the CSS Box Alignment Module spec started in 2012[1]. it's not exactly cutting edge. it is a bit hard to properly nail down this behavior, sure. but this is far from cutting edge. even when the spec was made, it was more trying to quantify what most of the browsers had already steered towards. apple is a serious foot dragger in every manner on the web. there's endless complaining about the web and "back in my day web pages were pages damn it" (aka demanding we all write & download native apps again for everything on every platform) and griping about modern capabilities (usually notifications (cause they're overtly terrible. and someday someone's going to write a browser that deals with permissions ambiently rather than with modals & Google's going to look like a real shit for permission spamming the web)). the truth is safari is a terrible dragging scourge and really basic stuff like box model isn't implemented until apple absolutely positively has to, and even then they break their stuff regularly. trying to be all "the spec isn't finallliiizzzeeddd" doesn't make me feel any better. I am sad that Safari doesn't have ~33% of CSS Box Alignment Module after a decade of it being reasonably well expectable. I am mad Apple roadblocks the web by refusing to allow other browsers to run or compete. [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-css3-align-20120612/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-css3-align-20120612/

dmitriid 5y ago
> lol the CSS Box Alignment Module spec started in 2012 lol and in 2012 it didn't have even half what it has now and the last change to that spec was only a week ago > I am sad that Safari doesn't have ~33% of CSS Box Alignment Module after a decade gap wasn't in the spec a decade ago. I, for one, am glad that Safari actually waits for the spec to stabilize bit instead of rushing headlong into something that will likely change.
- rektide 5y ago
  https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-css-align-3-20170906/#gaps https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-css-align-3-20170906/#gaps gaps is 4 years old. this company is trash & awful & their pathetic negligence is fucking up the web something wicked. it's obvious as fuck what sabotage this is & it sucks. this isnt caution it's anti-competitive against the internet. that the spec is changing is a huge cop out. apple can't drag their feet for years on every spec while preventing apple users from getting a better web experience, but they do. it's a trashfire way to treat the web, to hold it back. then to be constantly breaking features? apple doesn't just not care, they chronically underfund & debilitate the web.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > gaps is 4 years old. Oh, look. You managed to look it up. So, it's no longer "over a decade old" but "this particular thing that I think Safari must implement is 4 years old". Meanwhile: - that "4 year old" part of the specification didn't fully specify how percentage lengths work - the behaviour of 'normal' wasn't specified - gap shorthand only applied to grid containers (now it also applies to other containers) - gap shorthand was underspecified (how it's animated, what are initial values etc.) And that's only the things that I could immediately see. And this is only for one property out of dozens in a single standard out of thousands. > it's obvious as fuck what sabotage this is Whatever this is, it's definitely not sabotage. > apple can't drag their feet for years on every spec while preventing apple users from getting a better web experience, but they do. They can, and they will. Is the web a worse experience? Can't say a feel a difference because you didn't get that one single toy you so passionately care about. > it's a trashfire way to treat the web, to hold it back. Safari is only slightly behind Firefox on the number of features (aka Web APIs): https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence
    - rektide 5y ago
      I don't get why anyone would so aggresively go out of their way to carry water for a company that doesn't even allow users to use a modern web browser if they wanted to. are you paid to write this? what is your reason for being such an apple boosterist? do you really think waiting for specs to stabize is critical important to your day to day, that not having emerging features somehow saves you anything? why does absence buy you? standardization requires implementation. we need the data. we need people to try things to succeed in making good standards. in my view, waiting till it's done to start is not an option. it's how not to make a standard. I don't understand why you would work so hard to justify anti-web behaviors, particularly ones users are so vulgarly locked into.