5 ms·

Cats have the evolutionary benefit of being cute to humans. This allows them to be one of the most invasive species in the world. Case in point is Hawaii; att

Cats have the evolutionary benefit of being cute to humans. This allows them to be one of the most invasive species in the world. Case in point is Hawaii; attempts to bring the wild cat populations under control are immediately met with resistance from animal rights groups. This is in spite of the ongoing destruction to wild bird populations. One also has to be extremely careful about washing local vegetables, due to cats spreading toxoplasma.

totetsu 5y ago
I think Rattus Rattus might beat them to being the most invasive species in the world
giantg2 5y ago
I would think snails are the main reason for washing, but for a different pathogen.
FooHentai 5y ago
Same story in New Zealand. Even the SPCA here pursues a policy of trap, neuter, release for feral cats despite the overwhelming evidence that they absolutely decimate NZ's native bird populations, which evolved in the absence of such predators. It's very frustrating, folks can't acknowledge that 'cute and familiar' is causing enourmous ecological harm because it's out of sight, out of mind.
- jephson 5y ago
  There isn't overwhelming evidence, though. Native bird life in New Zealand has dramatically increased in recent years, despite cats continuing to enjoy relative freedom and huge numbers.
  - soperj 5y ago
    From very low numbers, because they're controlling other predators (stoats)
  - AbrahamParangi 5y ago
    What do you think the cats are eating?
    - petre 5y ago
      Whiscas?
    - corin_ 5y ago
      Lots of animals eat other animals, we don't kill everything that's not eating a vegetarian diet. If hypothetically (since I'm not familiar with the data) they're killing some birds but those bird populations remain healthy, is that a problem?
  - FooHentai 5y ago
    I know of at least three major published studies quantifying the prey caught by domestic cats in New Zealand in Auckland, Christchurch, and Dunedin. All found significant predation of native species by cats, and that it scaled with the population numbers of those species. On the Dunedin study: >"A year-long study of 208 cats in urban Dunedin showed that they kill more birds, skinks, geckos, and weta than rats and mice." >"37 Dunedin cats that were known to be prolific hunters, [...] without collars, the cats caught 378 animals, including 82 birds" >"There is the well-documented case of a lighthouse-keeper’s cat causing the extinction of the Ste-phens Island wren. And near Tongariro National Park, one feral cat was filmed killing 102 short-tailed bats in the Rangataua forest, on the side of Mt Ruapehu, in just seven days in 2010." https://www.forestandbird.org.nz/sites/default/files/2018-05/CatFactsheet_forestandbird.pdf https://www.forestandbird.org.nz/sites/default/files/2018-05... https://zslpublications.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1017/S095283690200328X https://zslpublications.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2486.2011.02464.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2486.... The success of native breeding, conservation, and re-introduction programmes has been in spite of the country's feral and domestic cats.
    - jephson 5y ago
      This is certainly evidence that cats are killing birds but characterising the numbers in the studies you've cited as absolute decimation seems unfair. I'm genuinely surprised at how low some of these counts are. For example: 37 bell-free cats deemed "prolific killers" only managed to kill 82 birds between them over the course of a year-long study? Even allowing for a large number of unknown kills the impact here seems small. The lighthouse story is tragic and maddening. While I opted not to adopt a new cat when my last one died, I don't support the predator-free approach to conservation.
      - soperj 5y ago
        >The lighthouse story is tragic and maddening. While I opted not to adopt a new cat when my last one died, I don't support the predator-free approach to conservation. Why?
- throwawaywrench 5y ago
  Even pet non-feral cats are cute little murder machines. "Oh but not my darling cat." yeah right. I found this link interesting. The cat tracker images showing where a cat has actually gone in the course of a week are amazing. https://cattracker.org/tracks/ https://cattracker.org/tracks/
- jim-jim-jim 5y ago
  The Cat Question is an illustrative example of where animal rights and environmentalism diverge. It's the same same story in Australia. I had multiple vocally Green neighbors in a vocally Green suburb of Melbourne who let their cats have free rein. The mutilated bird carcasses that littered the area were testament to that misguided liberty. Around election time the Greens mailers even included "protecting our pets" as one of its platform items, while at the same time advising voters to rank parties with actual environmental policies, such as the socialists, nearly last.
- totetsu 5y ago
  and, Predator free 2050! (don't mention the deer and pigs)
- ce4 5y ago
  https://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill https://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill That TheOatmeal comic always comes to mind.

totetsu 5y ago

I think Rattus Rattus might beat them to being the most invasive species in the world

giantg2 5y ago

I would think snails are the main reason for washing, but for a different pathogen.

FooHentai 5y ago

Same story in New Zealand. Even the SPCA here pursues a policy of trap, neuter, release for feral cats despite the overwhelming evidence that they absolutely decimate NZ's native bird populations, which evolved in the absence of such predators. It's very frustrating, folks can't acknowledge that 'cute and familiar' is causing enourmous ecological harm because it's out of sight, out of mind.

jephson 5y ago
There isn't overwhelming evidence, though. Native bird life in New Zealand has dramatically increased in recent years, despite cats continuing to enjoy relative freedom and huge numbers.
- soperj 5y ago
  From very low numbers, because they're controlling other predators (stoats)
- AbrahamParangi 5y ago
  What do you think the cats are eating?
  - petre 5y ago
    Whiscas?
  - corin_ 5y ago
    Lots of animals eat other animals, we don't kill everything that's not eating a vegetarian diet. If hypothetically (since I'm not familiar with the data) they're killing some birds but those bird populations remain healthy, is that a problem?
- FooHentai 5y ago
  I know of at least three major published studies quantifying the prey caught by domestic cats in New Zealand in Auckland, Christchurch, and Dunedin. All found significant predation of native species by cats, and that it scaled with the population numbers of those species. On the Dunedin study: >"A year-long study of 208 cats in urban Dunedin showed that they kill more birds, skinks, geckos, and weta than rats and mice." >"37 Dunedin cats that were known to be prolific hunters, [...] without collars, the cats caught 378 animals, including 82 birds" >"There is the well-documented case of a lighthouse-keeper’s cat causing the extinction of the Ste-phens Island wren. And near Tongariro National Park, one feral cat was filmed killing 102 short-tailed bats in the Rangataua forest, on the side of Mt Ruapehu, in just seven days in 2010." https://www.forestandbird.org.nz/sites/default/files/2018-05/CatFactsheet_forestandbird.pdf https://www.forestandbird.org.nz/sites/default/files/2018-05... https://zslpublications.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1017/S095283690200328X https://zslpublications.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2486.2011.02464.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2486.... The success of native breeding, conservation, and re-introduction programmes has been in spite of the country's feral and domestic cats.
  - jephson 5y ago
    This is certainly evidence that cats are killing birds but characterising the numbers in the studies you've cited as absolute decimation seems unfair. I'm genuinely surprised at how low some of these counts are. For example: 37 bell-free cats deemed "prolific killers" only managed to kill 82 birds between them over the course of a year-long study? Even allowing for a large number of unknown kills the impact here seems small. The lighthouse story is tragic and maddening. While I opted not to adopt a new cat when my last one died, I don't support the predator-free approach to conservation.
    - soperj 5y ago
      >The lighthouse story is tragic and maddening. While I opted not to adopt a new cat when my last one died, I don't support the predator-free approach to conservation. Why?
throwawaywrench 5y ago
Even pet non-feral cats are cute little murder machines. "Oh but not my darling cat." yeah right. I found this link interesting. The cat tracker images showing where a cat has actually gone in the course of a week are amazing. https://cattracker.org/tracks/ https://cattracker.org/tracks/
jim-jim-jim 5y ago
The Cat Question is an illustrative example of where animal rights and environmentalism diverge. It's the same same story in Australia. I had multiple vocally Green neighbors in a vocally Green suburb of Melbourne who let their cats have free rein. The mutilated bird carcasses that littered the area were testament to that misguided liberty. Around election time the Greens mailers even included "protecting our pets" as one of its platform items, while at the same time advising voters to rank parties with actual environmental policies, such as the socialists, nearly last.
totetsu 5y ago
and, Predator free 2050! (don't mention the deer and pigs)
ce4 5y ago
https://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill https://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill That TheOatmeal comic always comes to mind.