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> "We've been working on this for quite some time—well before Bessemer broke out," Randy Korgan, Teamsters National Director for Amazon, told Motherboard, refer

> "We've been working on this for quite some time—well before Bessemer broke out," Randy Korgan, Teamsters National Director for Amazon, told Motherboard, referring to the unionization drive in Bessemer, Alabama that Amazon thwarted earlier this year. Well the unions lost in Bessemer not because they were "thwarted" but because Amazon was offering really solid employment and benefits relative to the local labor market there and unionization could have led Amazon to divest from that labor market entirely. The employees in Bessemer understood that they had a good thing going that wasn't going to be improved by unionization.

Ericson2314 5y ago
That is why it's important to have a national campaign. Amazon can relocate any one warehouse but it's not going to want to give up on wide-scale coverage.
- RhysU 5y ago
  Repeatedly testing the same statistical outcome looking for a one-time, possibly tail event, is p-value hacking writ large.
  - beerandt 5y ago
    "Our side would shade have won if we just had the right voting pool." But this national thing isn't even a vote, it's just straight intimidation and extortion trying to get Amazon to "voluntarily" give in.
    - Ericson2314 5y ago
      > it's just straight intimidation and extortion trying to get Amazon to "voluntarily" give in. Yes? That's what labor organizing is supposed to be. Fighting dirty with monopsony power that should never have arisen in the first place, because that's the only option.
      - beerandt 5y ago
        Well yes, but they usually at least wait until they've organized. Without existing skin in the game at Amazon, this just seems much closer to actual extortion.
        Ericson2314 5y ago
        There's no way existing teamsters are going to force strikes, etc. very few employees are not on board with. That is a sure way to make the organizing fail with massive blowback. I'm sure they have some plan get enough skin in the game to actually inspire and have credibility. Maybe allow their organizers to work at amazon in "tours of duty" despite it being a non-union job.
  - Ericson2314 5y ago
    Are you saying going bigger is p-packing, or shopping for other warehouses is p-hacking? Either way, I don't really care. p-packing implies we are measuring phenomina that is stable / replicated. But that is decidedly not the point of even local campaigns: the goal would be to convince people and change hearts and minds. Never was the purpose to learn the true opinions of the early 20th century lower class American worker and all the learned helplessness our exploitative system has wrought. In more mathematical terms, not only does this "measuring" change then nature of the thing being measured, but the state space / phase space is decidedly not ergodic.
    - RhysU 5y ago
      Shopping warehouses in quick succession is p-hacking.
- hedora 5y ago
  To what end? Preventing Amazon from improving average labor conditions by getting them to treat their employees as poorly as teamster shops do?
  - cestith 5y ago
    If you think UPS treats its employees like Amazon does, then you need to took to more UPS employees.

Ericson2314 5y ago

That is why it's important to have a national campaign. Amazon can relocate any one warehouse but it's not going to want to give up on wide-scale coverage.

RhysU 5y ago
Repeatedly testing the same statistical outcome looking for a one-time, possibly tail event, is p-value hacking writ large.
- beerandt 5y ago
  "Our side would shade have won if we just had the right voting pool." But this national thing isn't even a vote, it's just straight intimidation and extortion trying to get Amazon to "voluntarily" give in.
  - Ericson2314 5y ago
    > it's just straight intimidation and extortion trying to get Amazon to "voluntarily" give in. Yes? That's what labor organizing is supposed to be. Fighting dirty with monopsony power that should never have arisen in the first place, because that's the only option.
    - beerandt 5y ago
      Well yes, but they usually at least wait until they've organized. Without existing skin in the game at Amazon, this just seems much closer to actual extortion.
      - Ericson2314 5y ago
        There's no way existing teamsters are going to force strikes, etc. very few employees are not on board with. That is a sure way to make the organizing fail with massive blowback. I'm sure they have some plan get enough skin in the game to actually inspire and have credibility. Maybe allow their organizers to work at amazon in "tours of duty" despite it being a non-union job.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  Are you saying going bigger is p-packing, or shopping for other warehouses is p-hacking? Either way, I don't really care. p-packing implies we are measuring phenomina that is stable / replicated. But that is decidedly not the point of even local campaigns: the goal would be to convince people and change hearts and minds. Never was the purpose to learn the true opinions of the early 20th century lower class American worker and all the learned helplessness our exploitative system has wrought. In more mathematical terms, not only does this "measuring" change then nature of the thing being measured, but the state space / phase space is decidedly not ergodic.
  - RhysU 5y ago
    Shopping warehouses in quick succession is p-hacking.
hedora 5y ago
To what end? Preventing Amazon from improving average labor conditions by getting them to treat their employees as poorly as teamster shops do?
- cestith 5y ago
  If you think UPS treats its employees like Amazon does, then you need to took to more UPS employees.