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Hi Jonathan, here is my hot take on the issue. When a user installs uBlock Origin, they are attempting to protect themselves from ads, not just privacy, but be

Hi Jonathan, here is my hot take on the issue. When a user installs uBlock Origin, they are attempting to protect themselves from ads, not just privacy, but because the ads themselves attempt to manipulate them into buying things. When Brave blocks ads in one place, but shows others ads instead, the users are not actually protected from the ads, any potential money that may have been generated by the ads is effectively stolen by Brave. It's smells to us like you are just stealing peoples content.

distrill 5y ago
> When a user installs uBlock Origin, they are attempting to protect themselves from ads, not just privacy, but because the ads themselves attempt to manipulate them into buying things I'm not sure where you're getting this statistic. Most people that I know, myself included, aren't trying to protect themselves from buying things, rather from annoying ads that clutter everything up and slow everything down. Perhaps brave isn't the best choice for you, but it certainly will be a good choice for a lot of people who are currently using adblockers.
- jay_kyburz 5y ago
  I didn't quote any statistics. Perhaps I should have said, "some users" or I could have said "users are also protected from manipulation". I think if you thought about it for a while you would object to a constant bombardment of messages that you are not cool enough, or popular enough, or attractive enough, or fit enough. Or that when you searched for things you were shown the "best results" rather than whoever paid google the most for your attention. Or if you were thinking of buying a thing one day, but decided not to because you decided you didn't need it, you might prefer not to be constantly convinced to change your mind and buy the thing. Buy the THING! My iPad is too old for an ad blocker so I have to suffer constant abuse when surfing the web on it. Don't get me started on Apple.
- approxim8ion 5y ago
  I'm part of the group GP refers to. I have no interest in ads. I might even be aggressively against them in most contexts. At best, they are a nagging distraction, and worst they are manipulation. I understand the value they bring to creators but where possible I opt for subscriptions or donations rather than ads, and have very few qualms about it.
  - xgulfie 5y ago
    I'm part of this group too. Fuck the current state of online advertising in its entirety. It's manipulative and is driving the web into the ground.
renewiltord 5y ago
Considering their ads are opt-in this argument makes no sense. Which class of person both wants to “protect themselves from ads” and opts in? Brave isn’t a browser I use but you guys are not even reading the comments you’re responding to.
- jay_kyburz 5y ago
  People who are tricked into thinking they are helping content creators by watching the ads that Brave serves. People who feel like they might be stealing a contents creators work unless the watch the ads. Why would anybody opt in to watch the ads otherwise? Update: Sorry, I just ready below that _users_ are paid up to 70% to watch ads which I did not realize even though that is what is said above. Explains why you would opt in.
  - getcrunk 5y ago
    And what's wrong with that? Brave blocks adds then allows you to opt in to see their ads. If that some how is theft then so is blocking ads in there first place.
jonathansampson 5y ago
You're absolutely right that some people are not interested in ads, at all. And this is why they install content-blockers and more. This doesn't change the fact that many others install things like uBlock Origin for their security and privacy benefits. This is precisely why Brave ships with Brave Ads and Rewards disabled by default. We believe that the out of box experience should be blocking. This works for both parties: those who want the reduced noise, and those who want the added security/privacy. I hope this helps :)
- jay_kyburz 5y ago
  I notice you didn't address one important part of my comment, that Brave is attempting to monetize other peoples intellectual property by stripping it of ads. There is a big moral difference between a community of people blocking ads for their own protection, and a company blocking ads for profit. -- When somebody reads a web page, but blocked the ads, I like to think the reader is saying, I'm interested in what you have to say, but I'm not spending money today. When somebody uses the Brave browser and has opted in to other ads, I can only think the reader is saying, I'm interested in what you are saying, but fuck you, I'm not buying what you are selling, I'm going to check out these other ads, make some money for myself and for Brave, and If I see anything I like I'll buy there instead.
  - catmanjan 5y ago
    Would you then say it's disengenous to listen to the tv or radio while browsing the internet with an ad blocker?
  - jonathansampson 5y ago
    > Brave is attempting to monetize other peoples intellectual property by stripping it of ads. Brave doesn't make money by blocking third-party ads; that's a privacy and security decision. Brave could default to no-blocking (which would be unwise, given the threat to users), and still have its own ad model of displaying ad notifications. > …people blocking ads for their own protection… This is why people install Brave; for the privacy and security benefits. This is the baseline experience in Brave. > When somebody uses the Brave browser and has opted in to other ads… Why do you assume people aren't using Brave for their own protection? For many people, including myself, advertising isn't the motivator of installing an ad/content blocker. The primary reason is the security/privacy risk of running a small app (which is what modern third-party digital ads are) on my machine. So if the problem is security and privacy, and not advertising, it makes sense why somebody would opt to participate in an alternative advertising model which does not have the same security/privacy risks, and even rewards the user (with 70% of the ad revenue) for their attention. > I'm going to check out these other ads, make some money for myself and for Brave… And for the publisher, since the default configuration of Brave is to queue up auto-contributions for the verified sites you visit.

distrill 5y ago

> When a user installs uBlock Origin, they are attempting to protect themselves from ads, not just privacy, but because the ads themselves attempt to manipulate them into buying things I'm not sure where you're getting this statistic. Most people that I know, myself included, aren't trying to protect themselves from buying things, rather from annoying ads that clutter everything up and slow everything down. Perhaps brave isn't the best choice for you, but it certainly will be a good choice for a lot of people who are currently using adblockers.

jay_kyburz 5y ago
I didn't quote any statistics. Perhaps I should have said, "some users" or I could have said "users are also protected from manipulation". I think if you thought about it for a while you would object to a constant bombardment of messages that you are not cool enough, or popular enough, or attractive enough, or fit enough. Or that when you searched for things you were shown the "best results" rather than whoever paid google the most for your attention. Or if you were thinking of buying a thing one day, but decided not to because you decided you didn't need it, you might prefer not to be constantly convinced to change your mind and buy the thing. Buy the THING! My iPad is too old for an ad blocker so I have to suffer constant abuse when surfing the web on it. Don't get me started on Apple.
approxim8ion 5y ago
I'm part of the group GP refers to. I have no interest in ads. I might even be aggressively against them in most contexts. At best, they are a nagging distraction, and worst they are manipulation. I understand the value they bring to creators but where possible I opt for subscriptions or donations rather than ads, and have very few qualms about it.
- xgulfie 5y ago
  I'm part of this group too. Fuck the current state of online advertising in its entirety. It's manipulative and is driving the web into the ground.

renewiltord 5y ago

Considering their ads are opt-in this argument makes no sense. Which class of person both wants to “protect themselves from ads” and opts in? Brave isn’t a browser I use but you guys are not even reading the comments you’re responding to.

jay_kyburz 5y ago
People who are tricked into thinking they are helping content creators by watching the ads that Brave serves. People who feel like they might be stealing a contents creators work unless the watch the ads. Why would anybody opt in to watch the ads otherwise? Update: Sorry, I just ready below that _users_ are paid up to 70% to watch ads which I did not realize even though that is what is said above. Explains why you would opt in.
- getcrunk 5y ago
  And what's wrong with that? Brave blocks adds then allows you to opt in to see their ads. If that some how is theft then so is blocking ads in there first place.

jonathansampson 5y ago

You're absolutely right that some people are not interested in ads, at all. And this is why they install content-blockers and more. This doesn't change the fact that many others install things like uBlock Origin for their security and privacy benefits. This is precisely why Brave ships with Brave Ads and Rewards disabled by default. We believe that the out of box experience should be blocking. This works for both parties: those who want the reduced noise, and those who want the added security/privacy. I hope this helps :)

jay_kyburz 5y ago
I notice you didn't address one important part of my comment, that Brave is attempting to monetize other peoples intellectual property by stripping it of ads. There is a big moral difference between a community of people blocking ads for their own protection, and a company blocking ads for profit. -- When somebody reads a web page, but blocked the ads, I like to think the reader is saying, I'm interested in what you have to say, but I'm not spending money today. When somebody uses the Brave browser and has opted in to other ads, I can only think the reader is saying, I'm interested in what you are saying, but fuck you, I'm not buying what you are selling, I'm going to check out these other ads, make some money for myself and for Brave, and If I see anything I like I'll buy there instead.
- catmanjan 5y ago
  Would you then say it's disengenous to listen to the tv or radio while browsing the internet with an ad blocker?
- jonathansampson 5y ago
  > Brave is attempting to monetize other peoples intellectual property by stripping it of ads. Brave doesn't make money by blocking third-party ads; that's a privacy and security decision. Brave could default to no-blocking (which would be unwise, given the threat to users), and still have its own ad model of displaying ad notifications. > …people blocking ads for their own protection… This is why people install Brave; for the privacy and security benefits. This is the baseline experience in Brave. > When somebody uses the Brave browser and has opted in to other ads… Why do you assume people aren't using Brave for their own protection? For many people, including myself, advertising isn't the motivator of installing an ad/content blocker. The primary reason is the security/privacy risk of running a small app (which is what modern third-party digital ads are) on my machine. So if the problem is security and privacy, and not advertising, it makes sense why somebody would opt to participate in an alternative advertising model which does not have the same security/privacy risks, and even rewards the user (with 70% of the ad revenue) for their attention. > I'm going to check out these other ads, make some money for myself and for Brave… And for the publisher, since the default configuration of Brave is to queue up auto-contributions for the verified sites you visit.