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Don't think that'll be doable. Luck plays a huge role, even the birth lottery - not just your parents, but your location. Which country you're born into can lar

by zeusk 5y ago

Don't think that'll be doable. Luck plays a huge role, even the birth lottery - not just your parents, but your location. Which country you're born into can largely decide your fate as Immigration has been getting harder by the years.

gonzo41 5y ago
Effective taxes, socialized health and welfare and safer communities. Collective bargaining at work. Those things should level a lot of the big bumps out.
ethanbond 5y ago
Of course it can’t be solved, but it can be improved dramatically. E.g. guaranteed levels of healthcare, education, and shelter.
- username90 5y ago
  It helps the poor be less poor but it doesn't help the poor become rich. Plenty of countries does those things and the poor still mostly remains poor, albeit with a better standard of living. A reason could be that when poverty hurts like it does in USA it motivates people to work hard to get a better job, while in countries where poverty isn't a big deal people can just choose to live the simple and easy life without much consequences. I know I do it, I live in such a country and choose to live on much less than the least paid workers gets. I don't need more, and the low spending lets me work almost nothing and still get by. I don't feel I lack anything, and neither do any of the poor people I see here. College was free, healthcare is free, entertainment is super cheap with free public parks with sports areas and cheap internet, transportation is cheap with public transit and most stuff you need is within walking distance anyway. If instead I was an American citizen I'd work a lot harder to avoid all the shit that can happen to you when you lack money there. I'd be richer on paper, but in practice I think I'd be worse off.
  - ethanbond 5y ago
    This is really not about getting a particular outcome (which is too subjective/relative to even have a meaningful conversation). This is about the reality and perception that there is some correlation between effort and outcome. You clearly feel that there is a correlation — whether you “utilize” it is your decision to make, as you explain, but you believe it is there. Many Americans dispute the existence of the correlation itself.
TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
Note the parent didn't claim we should eliminate luck as a component of success, but rather adjust society, bit by bit, over time, so that luck is less of an effector.
jlawson 5y ago
Even beyond which country, when you were born is huge. Most of us are lucky to be around now instead of 100 (or 1000) years ago. For some reason people like to ignore temporal luck and temporal inequality, but for actual human outcomes they are massive influences.

by zeusk 5y ago

gonzo41 5y ago

Effective taxes, socialized health and welfare and safer communities. Collective bargaining at work. Those things should level a lot of the big bumps out.

ethanbond 5y ago

Of course it can’t be solved, but it can be improved dramatically. E.g. guaranteed levels of healthcare, education, and shelter.

username90 5y ago
It helps the poor be less poor but it doesn't help the poor become rich. Plenty of countries does those things and the poor still mostly remains poor, albeit with a better standard of living. A reason could be that when poverty hurts like it does in USA it motivates people to work hard to get a better job, while in countries where poverty isn't a big deal people can just choose to live the simple and easy life without much consequences. I know I do it, I live in such a country and choose to live on much less than the least paid workers gets. I don't need more, and the low spending lets me work almost nothing and still get by. I don't feel I lack anything, and neither do any of the poor people I see here. College was free, healthcare is free, entertainment is super cheap with free public parks with sports areas and cheap internet, transportation is cheap with public transit and most stuff you need is within walking distance anyway. If instead I was an American citizen I'd work a lot harder to avoid all the shit that can happen to you when you lack money there. I'd be richer on paper, but in practice I think I'd be worse off.
- ethanbond 5y ago
  This is really not about getting a particular outcome (which is too subjective/relative to even have a meaningful conversation). This is about the reality and perception that there is some correlation between effort and outcome. You clearly feel that there is a correlation — whether you “utilize” it is your decision to make, as you explain, but you believe it is there. Many Americans dispute the existence of the correlation itself.

TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago

Note the parent didn't claim we should eliminate luck as a component of success, but rather adjust society, bit by bit, over time, so that luck is less of an effector.

jlawson 5y ago

Even beyond which country, when you were born is huge. Most of us are lucky to be around now instead of 100 (or 1000) years ago. For some reason people like to ignore temporal luck and temporal inequality, but for actual human outcomes they are massive influences.