4 ms·

Born to rich parents, and the right age and location to cash in on the original dot com boom.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Getting rich off paypal doesn't directly translate into the success of SpaceX and Tesla. Both of those were massive gambles with a lot of minute details that needed to go right.
- luffapi 5y ago
  Yes it does. Do you think non-rich people get billions of dollars of government handouts?
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Government handouts do not guarantee successful aerospace and automotive startups. Those industries are notoriously hard to break into. Any business that had gotten to that point in those industries would have gotten those same subsidies.
    - moralestapia 5y ago
      And it's even harder without the handouts, so, your point is moot.
slownews45 5y ago
Huh? First - if you want to raise money today in silicon valley - the place is flooded with money. Second - elon's not (that) famous for paypal or his other earlier companies - he's famous for tesla and spacex. Even as a rich person he put a huge amount of money into them relative to net worth. Third - he did this and took on two entranched systems. In space he took on the existing govt backed space launch system type industry. These were players with BILLIONs of annual costs for very little return (SLS will be $20B to develop and $2B+ per launch). He's offering launches in $50M - $100M range by comparison. Etc etc. 100+ launches so far (SLS has zero even though govt spent many billions on it). For cars - he had to build his entire car charging network, fight dealers and their govt cronies, fight oil, all while govt / politicians were spending billions again on this hydrogen superhighway nonsense.
- luffapi 5y ago
  Twice you say that Musk is fighting the government, but he is not. Neither Space X or Tesla would exist if taxpayers weren’t giving him billions in corporate welfare.
  - slownews45 5y ago
    In space the idea that SpaceX was the ones being subsidized vs EVERY OTHER provider is ridiculous. I mean - it's a flat lie. You need to look at what govt is paying for existing defense / industrial launches. What they spend on development. Asia / Russia / Europe and US. Atlas the govt paid $15B+ to develop and then 200M+ per launch. Most other programs have been govt funded / cost+ contracts. SLS fits this. Can you give me a specific example of the "billions" spaceX has gotten in "corporate welfare"? They are providing the deal of the century on development and ops costs, and are putting in far more private capital then most other providers as well, taking much more performance risk (ie, not all cost+ contracts) etc. The idea that this approach is somehow more costly than the pure pork style of the past is a pretty bold claim.
    - luffapi 5y ago
      I did not claim Musk is alone in receiving corporate welfare. My argument is that he’s positioned to receive corporate welfare due to his being in the right place at the right time with PayPal. Plenty of other mediocre people are also receiving billions in taxpayer handouts.
      - slownews45 5y ago
        Can you give an example of the SpaceX "corporate welfare". Please be as specific as possible - that will help make this claim more understandable and we can discuss the specifics of this welfare.
        luffapi 5y ago
        Here you go: https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-201...

Getting rich off paypal doesn't directly translate into the success of SpaceX and Tesla. Both of those were massive gambles with a lot of minute details that needed to go right.

luffapi 5y ago
Yes it does. Do you think non-rich people get billions of dollars of government handouts?
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Government handouts do not guarantee successful aerospace and automotive startups. Those industries are notoriously hard to break into. Any business that had gotten to that point in those industries would have gotten those same subsidies.
  - moralestapia 5y ago
    And it's even harder without the handouts, so, your point is moot.

slownews45 5y ago

Huh? First - if you want to raise money today in silicon valley - the place is flooded with money. Second - elon's not (that) famous for paypal or his other earlier companies - he's famous for tesla and spacex. Even as a rich person he put a huge amount of money into them relative to net worth. Third - he did this and took on two entranched systems. In space he took on the existing govt backed space launch system type industry. These were players with BILLIONs of annual costs for very little return (SLS will be $20B to develop and $2B+ per launch). He's offering launches in $50M - $100M range by comparison. Etc etc. 100+ launches so far (SLS has zero even though govt spent many billions on it). For cars - he had to build his entire car charging network, fight dealers and their govt cronies, fight oil, all while govt / politicians were spending billions again on this hydrogen superhighway nonsense.

luffapi 5y ago
Twice you say that Musk is fighting the government, but he is not. Neither Space X or Tesla would exist if taxpayers weren’t giving him billions in corporate welfare.
- slownews45 5y ago
  In space the idea that SpaceX was the ones being subsidized vs EVERY OTHER provider is ridiculous. I mean - it's a flat lie. You need to look at what govt is paying for existing defense / industrial launches. What they spend on development. Asia / Russia / Europe and US. Atlas the govt paid $15B+ to develop and then 200M+ per launch. Most other programs have been govt funded / cost+ contracts. SLS fits this. Can you give me a specific example of the "billions" spaceX has gotten in "corporate welfare"? They are providing the deal of the century on development and ops costs, and are putting in far more private capital then most other providers as well, taking much more performance risk (ie, not all cost+ contracts) etc. The idea that this approach is somehow more costly than the pure pork style of the past is a pretty bold claim.
  - luffapi 5y ago
    I did not claim Musk is alone in receiving corporate welfare. My argument is that he’s positioned to receive corporate welfare due to his being in the right place at the right time with PayPal. Plenty of other mediocre people are also receiving billions in taxpayer handouts.
    - slownews45 5y ago
      Can you give an example of the SpaceX "corporate welfare". Please be as specific as possible - that will help make this claim more understandable and we can discuss the specifics of this welfare.
      - luffapi 5y ago
        Here you go: https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-201...