4 ms·

Agreed. In my experience with yoga and book clubs the females tend to outnumber - sometimes significantly - the males. I'm sure there are others.

munk-a 5y ago
Even in hobbies that are usually seen as male dominated like comic books and video games - you'll find a significant number of women that are interested, though they may be quite defensive due to constantly being pursued.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  Then your back where you started with the ratio issue.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    In the world there exist more women then men - I think it's reasonable to assume that homosexuality and asexuality are pretty gender independent factors, so there are more women looking for a relationship than men. It isn't a ratio issue - with apps it's my opinion that the experiences they provide are inherently toxic and drive away a lot of the potential customers - but this isn't an issue with society at large.
    - Dracophoenix 5y ago
      Most of the, for lack of a better term, "extra" women of the world are widowers who outlived their husbands between their 60s and their 80s. Few of them are going be as springy as Madonna. I doubt the ones among them that are looking for a stable relationship are going to be compatible with 20-40 year olds looking for an energetic partner. Areas where there are a surplus of contemporary women have language barriers and cultural differences that make a relationship more prone to dissolve. It's not impossible, but there are more problems than gains unless there's some quality that offsets those disadvantages (i.e. desperation to be married, partner has money or is of a favorable nationality, desire for a certain temperament in a partner, etc.). And this is on top of the usual issues and tradeoffs of a relationship. All things being equal, it's much easier to have a partner of a similar nationality or cultural understanding than going international. While none of this changes your point about how "toxic" online dating is, let me remind you that the source of that "toxicity" is the people themselves. People are willing to take others for granted unless or until there's something in it for them not to so. This is also the case IRL in diplomacy, friendships, families, and all sorts of interpersonal relationships. The difference is that online dating brings a more brutally honest version of this dynamic into full view. No couching in euphemisms, no friendly facades and handshakes, and no "I regret to inform you...". Just an unspoken "show me what you've got". If you think this isn't practiced in society at large in some form or fashion, then it suggests you haven't looked closely enough.
    - concordDance 5y ago
      > I think it's reasonable to assume that homosexuality and asexuality are pretty gender independent factors Um, no. You should check these things rather than assume. Male homosexuality is much more common than female.
  - void_mint 5y ago
    I think if you're thinking about a "ratio", you're kind of missing the point of these past few comments, which is to explicitly _not compete_, but instead just pursue happiness and attempt to make connections on the way. If you're saying "But the ratio is off", your motives are probably incorrect about whatever "thing" you're thinking about doing.
    - Dracophoenix 5y ago
      I followed the comments. I just don't see how not explicitly competing is consistent with pursuing happiness (polygamous relationships excluded). Even if one is not in a real or hypothetical competition with others for the exclusive reciprocation of one's interest and feelings, one is always competing with time and the opportunity costs that come with naive and fruitless decisions. The ratio is a major factor in that calculus. The massive amounts of time sifting through chaff is time taken from obtaining wheat. There's little gain to go any further. Happiness depends on an achievable end, not having hope strung out before you like a carrot on a stick. If you have no expectations then there's no point in doing anything. In these proposed meetup scenarios of common hobbies, we are assuming the best case that: *one derives joy out of the endeavor itself *one just so happens to find camaraderie with a group of strangers *at least one of these strangers is of the sex that appeals to oneself *this particular stranger is single *this particular stranger is open to dating in this group *this particular stranger finds one, among others, to be worth dating *this particular stranger is receptive to one's advances *this particular stranger chooses one ,out of a bevy of potential suitors, to be the one and only S.O. (for the time being) Any of these circumstances can and do go wrong more often than not. Pretending that one can just wait and see and everything might turn out well is leaving everything to a self-deceiving lottery. In which case, why bother? What's the point? After all, someone could just as well fall out of the sky. The chances are about the same.
      - void_mint 5y ago
        Your assertion is that "one derives joy out of the endeavor itself", in reference to the cultivation of a hobby, "can and does go wrong more often than not"? I kinda stopped reading after this part. Best of luck in your search I guess.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  Where are the women interested in purchasing and restoring 30 year old VAXstations ;)
  - munk-a 5y ago
    I would find it pretty difficult to find a man interested in purchasing and restoring 30 year old VAXstations - that's just an extremely niche interest.
    - the_only_law 5y ago
      Yeah I was just joking.
prawn 5y ago
Met my wife while volunteering (running a fundraising quiz night) for a youth breast cancer charity. Ratio there was pretty favourable.

munk-a 5y ago

Even in hobbies that are usually seen as male dominated like comic books and video games - you'll find a significant number of women that are interested, though they may be quite defensive due to constantly being pursued.

Dracophoenix 5y ago
Then your back where you started with the ratio issue.
- munk-a 5y ago
  In the world there exist more women then men - I think it's reasonable to assume that homosexuality and asexuality are pretty gender independent factors, so there are more women looking for a relationship than men. It isn't a ratio issue - with apps it's my opinion that the experiences they provide are inherently toxic and drive away a lot of the potential customers - but this isn't an issue with society at large.
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    Most of the, for lack of a better term, "extra" women of the world are widowers who outlived their husbands between their 60s and their 80s. Few of them are going be as springy as Madonna. I doubt the ones among them that are looking for a stable relationship are going to be compatible with 20-40 year olds looking for an energetic partner. Areas where there are a surplus of contemporary women have language barriers and cultural differences that make a relationship more prone to dissolve. It's not impossible, but there are more problems than gains unless there's some quality that offsets those disadvantages (i.e. desperation to be married, partner has money or is of a favorable nationality, desire for a certain temperament in a partner, etc.). And this is on top of the usual issues and tradeoffs of a relationship. All things being equal, it's much easier to have a partner of a similar nationality or cultural understanding than going international. While none of this changes your point about how "toxic" online dating is, let me remind you that the source of that "toxicity" is the people themselves. People are willing to take others for granted unless or until there's something in it for them not to so. This is also the case IRL in diplomacy, friendships, families, and all sorts of interpersonal relationships. The difference is that online dating brings a more brutally honest version of this dynamic into full view. No couching in euphemisms, no friendly facades and handshakes, and no "I regret to inform you...". Just an unspoken "show me what you've got". If you think this isn't practiced in society at large in some form or fashion, then it suggests you haven't looked closely enough.
  - concordDance 5y ago
    > I think it's reasonable to assume that homosexuality and asexuality are pretty gender independent factors Um, no. You should check these things rather than assume. Male homosexuality is much more common than female.
- void_mint 5y ago
  I think if you're thinking about a "ratio", you're kind of missing the point of these past few comments, which is to explicitly _not compete_, but instead just pursue happiness and attempt to make connections on the way. If you're saying "But the ratio is off", your motives are probably incorrect about whatever "thing" you're thinking about doing.
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    I followed the comments. I just don't see how not explicitly competing is consistent with pursuing happiness (polygamous relationships excluded). Even if one is not in a real or hypothetical competition with others for the exclusive reciprocation of one's interest and feelings, one is always competing with time and the opportunity costs that come with naive and fruitless decisions. The ratio is a major factor in that calculus. The massive amounts of time sifting through chaff is time taken from obtaining wheat. There's little gain to go any further. Happiness depends on an achievable end, not having hope strung out before you like a carrot on a stick. If you have no expectations then there's no point in doing anything. In these proposed meetup scenarios of common hobbies, we are assuming the best case that: *one derives joy out of the endeavor itself *one just so happens to find camaraderie with a group of strangers *at least one of these strangers is of the sex that appeals to oneself *this particular stranger is single *this particular stranger is open to dating in this group *this particular stranger finds one, among others, to be worth dating *this particular stranger is receptive to one's advances *this particular stranger chooses one ,out of a bevy of potential suitors, to be the one and only S.O. (for the time being) Any of these circumstances can and do go wrong more often than not. Pretending that one can just wait and see and everything might turn out well is leaving everything to a self-deceiving lottery. In which case, why bother? What's the point? After all, someone could just as well fall out of the sky. The chances are about the same.
    - void_mint 5y ago
      Your assertion is that "one derives joy out of the endeavor itself", in reference to the cultivation of a hobby, "can and does go wrong more often than not"? I kinda stopped reading after this part. Best of luck in your search I guess.
the_only_law 5y ago
Where are the women interested in purchasing and restoring 30 year old VAXstations ;)
- munk-a 5y ago
  I would find it pretty difficult to find a man interested in purchasing and restoring 30 year old VAXstations - that's just an extremely niche interest.
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    Yeah I was just joking.

prawn 5y ago

Met my wife while volunteering (running a fundraising quiz night) for a youth breast cancer charity. Ratio there was pretty favourable.