9 ms·

The question is who is the mob. I fear the crazies much more who stormed the capital and tried to overthrow our democracy than some online SJWs who are going to

The question is who is the mob. I fear the crazies much more who stormed the capital and tried to overthrow our democracy than some online SJWs who are going to try and cancel someone for having an unpopular opinion. Not that either are great, for instance I didn't find Damore's opinions outlandish although expressed poorly.

neartheplain 5y ago
Personally, I fear mob violence commited with the sanction and cooperation of the state and news media. That's the sort of violence which starts, keeps going, and doesn't stop until it literally burns itself out. In general, organized violence ends when 1) law enforcement takes decisive action to detain the perpetrators, and 2) organizers think the violence no longer serves their political goals. Both 1) and 2) were true of the Capitol insurrection, which was universally condemned and whose perpetrators were swiftly rounded up. Neither were especially true of the far-left anarchist uprisings, particularly in cities like Portland where permissive DAs let the same rioters out literally within hours of their arrest, while NPR and the Washington Post praised those who threw firebombs at courthouses and police stations. So, I expect less of the former and more of the latter.
- mint2 5y ago
  > 1) law enforcement takes decisive action to detain the perpetrators, and 2) organizers think the violence no longer serves their political goals. Both 1) and 2) were true of the Capitol insurrection, which was universally condemned 1) The law enforcement has a track record of glad handling the far right. 2) many prominent right wing media and political figures tried blaming the insurrection on antifa, are blocking any investigations, and are justifying the event and the big lie that created it. I don’t think most people who aren’t supporters of right wing viewpoints will agree with your assessments.
  - neartheplain 5y ago
    (Considered not replying, but then looked again at the link title...) The view of law enforcement as going easy on the far-right may have been true in 1970s America, but it does not appear so 2021. Far-right militia movements have been subject to intense scrutiny and violence (and some allege, entrapment) since their growth in the 1990s [0][1]. In the case of the Capitol riot, 525 people have now been federally charged [2]. Arrested rioters have been "savagely beaten" in jail by prison guards, to the point of skull fractures and permanent blindness [3]. It's true that fringe Congressional Republicans such as Josh Hawley or Marjorie Taylor Greene have tried to blame antifa for the Capitol insurrection. They hold no powerful Senate or House positions, and appear "prominent" mainly due to the attention the the press gives them. The actual Republican Congressional leadership swiftly denounced the insurrection, and placed blame for the attack on President Trump [4][5]. In contrast, President Biden and prominent Senators such as Jerry Nadler have repeatedly denied the existence of organized far-left violence at all [6][7], describing events such as the month-long nightly siege of the federal courthouse in Portland "a myth" and "imaginary." Speaker Nancy Pelosi has acknowledged antifa gangs' existence in the past, after they vandalized her house and sprayed it with pig blood. As rioters threw Molotov cocktails and firebombs at the federal courthouse in Portland, attacked federal agents with hammers, lasers, and bricks, beat and stabbed journalists, set fire to the Mayor's condo building, and were arrested carrying illegal firearms, the Washington Post gave them a glowing photo shoot [8]. They were praised as morally virtuous freedom-fighters. In Seattle, anarchists occupied several city blocks for weeks with assault rifles, and shot dead an unarmed black child [9] before destroying the evidence and concealing the killer's identity. These stories disappeared from the Washington Post, NPR, and even Fox News within days, yet we still get frequent updates on the Capitol insurrection. Finally, it makes no difference whether cops arrest more left-wing rioters if the local DA and US Attorney decide to release them and dismiss all charges [10][11]. There's been little such leniency applied to violent actors in the Capitol insurrection. This has not gone unnoticed by either the far-right or far-left. The exasperation I feel watching this unfold as someone on the center-left is a shadow of what I sense from the actual right wing. I think anger at the leniency given to far-left violence last summer is what propelled a lot of people to attack the Capitol, in a "if they can get away with it, why can't we?" sort of tantrum. This emotional potential still remains. The risk of an eventual organized right-wing backlash, which so far has not reached the level of burning down buildings, executing people in the street, or occupying city blocks with armed militants, is what worries me most about the chance of more far-left violence. The extreme right is watching the extreme left get away with it, and they are taking notes. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25839889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25839889 [1] https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/06/07/whitmer-kidnapping-plot-suspect-pete-musico-fbi-agents-informant-entrapment/7590816002/ https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/06/07/w... [2] https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1 https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-ar... [3] https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/06/capitol-riot-defendant-beating-guards-479413 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/06/capitol-riot-defend... [4] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mitch-mcconnell-blames-trump-for-deadly-capitol-riot/ar-BB1cTsVA https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mitch-mcconnell-blam... [5] https://www.newsweek.com/kevin-mccarthy-tells-gop-stop-claiming-antifa-caused-riot-says-trump-bears-responsibility-1561317 https://www.newsweek.com/kevin-mccarthy-tells-gop-stop-claim... [6] https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2020/07/27/nadler-still-thinks-antifa-is-a-myth-n2573164 https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2020/07/27/nadle... [7] https://news.yahoo.com/biden-says-antifa-idea-not-025049929.html https://news.yahoo.com/biden-says-antifa-idea-not-025049929.... [8] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/08/trump-sent-agents-quell-unrest-protest-is-what-portland-does-best/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/08/trump-sent-... [9] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671284 [10] https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2020/08/11/district-attorney-mike-schmidt-will-drop-the-majority-of-current-charges-again-portland-protesters/ https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2020/08/11/district-attorn... [11] https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/portland-protest-cases-dismissed-feds/283-002f01d2-3217-4b12-8725-3fda2cad119f https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/portland-pro...
- longtimegoogler 5y ago
  One's opinion on this probably depends on identity and political views. From what I understand, Trump blocked the National Guard from supporting officers during the Capitol insurrection, so it was supported by the President at the very least. Preventing the certification of Biden is a more grave threat to our democracy than the BLM protestors in cities like Portland, IMO. Mainly since White Americans are still the majority and by and large supporters of the right, I don't see movements like BLM gaining much power.
  - neartheplain 5y ago
    The Senate's comprehensive report on the Capitol attack [0], released earlier this month, appears to exonerate Trump in deployment of the National Guard. In fact, his acting Secretary of Defense (to whom deployment authorization was delegated) suggested locking down DC ahead of time, but city officials demurred. >Mainly since White Americans are still the majority and by and large supporters of the right, I don't see movements like BLM gaining much power. You'd be surprised. Most violent actors who call themselves antifa are white, especially in the Pacific Northwest [1]. During last summer's Portland courthouse siege, a white BLM/antifa rioter stabbed a black Trump supporter in the stomach [2]. This stabbing wasn't reported in outlets like NPR or the Washington Post, even as they praised rioters and criticized the police response. [0] https://www.rules.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Jan%206%20HSGAC%20Rules%20Report.pdf https://www.rules.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Jan%206%20HSGAC%2... [1] https://twitter.com/AntifaWatch2/status/1302964750817652739 https://twitter.com/AntifaWatch2/status/1302964750817652739 [2] https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/blake-hampe/ https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/blake-hampe/

neartheplain 5y ago

Personally, I fear mob violence commited with the sanction and cooperation of the state and news media. That's the sort of violence which starts, keeps going, and doesn't stop until it literally burns itself out. In general, organized violence ends when 1) law enforcement takes decisive action to detain the perpetrators, and 2) organizers think the violence no longer serves their political goals. Both 1) and 2) were true of the Capitol insurrection, which was universally condemned and whose perpetrators were swiftly rounded up. Neither were especially true of the far-left anarchist uprisings, particularly in cities like Portland where permissive DAs let the same rioters out literally within hours of their arrest, while NPR and the Washington Post praised those who threw firebombs at courthouses and police stations. So, I expect less of the former and more of the latter.

mint2 5y ago
> 1) law enforcement takes decisive action to detain the perpetrators, and 2) organizers think the violence no longer serves their political goals. Both 1) and 2) were true of the Capitol insurrection, which was universally condemned 1) The law enforcement has a track record of glad handling the far right. 2) many prominent right wing media and political figures tried blaming the insurrection on antifa, are blocking any investigations, and are justifying the event and the big lie that created it. I don’t think most people who aren’t supporters of right wing viewpoints will agree with your assessments.
- neartheplain 5y ago
  (Considered not replying, but then looked again at the link title...) The view of law enforcement as going easy on the far-right may have been true in 1970s America, but it does not appear so 2021. Far-right militia movements have been subject to intense scrutiny and violence (and some allege, entrapment) since their growth in the 1990s [0][1]. In the case of the Capitol riot, 525 people have now been federally charged [2]. Arrested rioters have been "savagely beaten" in jail by prison guards, to the point of skull fractures and permanent blindness [3]. It's true that fringe Congressional Republicans such as Josh Hawley or Marjorie Taylor Greene have tried to blame antifa for the Capitol insurrection. They hold no powerful Senate or House positions, and appear "prominent" mainly due to the attention the the press gives them. The actual Republican Congressional leadership swiftly denounced the insurrection, and placed blame for the attack on President Trump [4][5]. In contrast, President Biden and prominent Senators such as Jerry Nadler have repeatedly denied the existence of organized far-left violence at all [6][7], describing events such as the month-long nightly siege of the federal courthouse in Portland "a myth" and "imaginary." Speaker Nancy Pelosi has acknowledged antifa gangs' existence in the past, after they vandalized her house and sprayed it with pig blood. As rioters threw Molotov cocktails and firebombs at the federal courthouse in Portland, attacked federal agents with hammers, lasers, and bricks, beat and stabbed journalists, set fire to the Mayor's condo building, and were arrested carrying illegal firearms, the Washington Post gave them a glowing photo shoot [8]. They were praised as morally virtuous freedom-fighters. In Seattle, anarchists occupied several city blocks for weeks with assault rifles, and shot dead an unarmed black child [9] before destroying the evidence and concealing the killer's identity. These stories disappeared from the Washington Post, NPR, and even Fox News within days, yet we still get frequent updates on the Capitol insurrection. Finally, it makes no difference whether cops arrest more left-wing rioters if the local DA and US Attorney decide to release them and dismiss all charges [10][11]. There's been little such leniency applied to violent actors in the Capitol insurrection. This has not gone unnoticed by either the far-right or far-left. The exasperation I feel watching this unfold as someone on the center-left is a shadow of what I sense from the actual right wing. I think anger at the leniency given to far-left violence last summer is what propelled a lot of people to attack the Capitol, in a "if they can get away with it, why can't we?" sort of tantrum. This emotional potential still remains. The risk of an eventual organized right-wing backlash, which so far has not reached the level of burning down buildings, executing people in the street, or occupying city blocks with armed militants, is what worries me most about the chance of more far-left violence. The extreme right is watching the extreme left get away with it, and they are taking notes. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25839889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25839889 [1] https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/06/07/whitmer-kidnapping-plot-suspect-pete-musico-fbi-agents-informant-entrapment/7590816002/ https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/06/07/w... [2] https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1 https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-ar... [3] https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/06/capitol-riot-defendant-beating-guards-479413 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/06/capitol-riot-defend... [4] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mitch-mcconnell-blames-trump-for-deadly-capitol-riot/ar-BB1cTsVA https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mitch-mcconnell-blam... [5] https://www.newsweek.com/kevin-mccarthy-tells-gop-stop-claiming-antifa-caused-riot-says-trump-bears-responsibility-1561317 https://www.newsweek.com/kevin-mccarthy-tells-gop-stop-claim... [6] https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2020/07/27/nadler-still-thinks-antifa-is-a-myth-n2573164 https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2020/07/27/nadle... [7] https://news.yahoo.com/biden-says-antifa-idea-not-025049929.html https://news.yahoo.com/biden-says-antifa-idea-not-025049929.... [8] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/08/trump-sent-agents-quell-unrest-protest-is-what-portland-does-best/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/08/trump-sent-... [9] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671284 [10] https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2020/08/11/district-attorney-mike-schmidt-will-drop-the-majority-of-current-charges-again-portland-protesters/ https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2020/08/11/district-attorn... [11] https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/portland-protest-cases-dismissed-feds/283-002f01d2-3217-4b12-8725-3fda2cad119f https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/portland-pro...
longtimegoogler 5y ago
One's opinion on this probably depends on identity and political views. From what I understand, Trump blocked the National Guard from supporting officers during the Capitol insurrection, so it was supported by the President at the very least. Preventing the certification of Biden is a more grave threat to our democracy than the BLM protestors in cities like Portland, IMO. Mainly since White Americans are still the majority and by and large supporters of the right, I don't see movements like BLM gaining much power.
- neartheplain 5y ago
  The Senate's comprehensive report on the Capitol attack [0], released earlier this month, appears to exonerate Trump in deployment of the National Guard. In fact, his acting Secretary of Defense (to whom deployment authorization was delegated) suggested locking down DC ahead of time, but city officials demurred. >Mainly since White Americans are still the majority and by and large supporters of the right, I don't see movements like BLM gaining much power. You'd be surprised. Most violent actors who call themselves antifa are white, especially in the Pacific Northwest [1]. During last summer's Portland courthouse siege, a white BLM/antifa rioter stabbed a black Trump supporter in the stomach [2]. This stabbing wasn't reported in outlets like NPR or the Washington Post, even as they praised rioters and criticized the police response. [0] https://www.rules.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Jan%206%20HSGAC%20Rules%20Report.pdf https://www.rules.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Jan%206%20HSGAC%2... [1] https://twitter.com/AntifaWatch2/status/1302964750817652739 https://twitter.com/AntifaWatch2/status/1302964750817652739 [2] https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/blake-hampe/ https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/blake-hampe/