4 ms·

Pretending to be a man to see how its like to court women online? Sounds reasonable. Pretending to be a man, irl, wearing a disguise? I'm not sure that transla

Pretending to be a man to see how its like to court women online? Sounds reasonable. Pretending to be a man, irl, wearing a disguise? I'm not sure that translates to anything. Saying women rejected her for not being masculine enough could easily be a nice way of saying "while I wouldn't dare question whether you are, in fact, a man, here in front of me, something about this feels off putting for me".

thaumasiotes 5y ago
One girl she dated revealed afterwards that she had referred to Ned as "my gay boyfriend". I'm not sure what difference you see between "rejecting someone for not being masculine enough" and "questioning whether they are, in fact, a man".
- majormajor 5y ago
  > I'm not sure what difference you see between "rejecting someone for not being masculine enough" and "questioning whether they are, in fact, a man". I wonder what percentage of these women would've guessed right had she straight-up asked "do you think I'm a man or do you think I'm a woman pretending to be a man"? That's the difference - the idea that someone you're dating is deceiving you on such a huge level isn't something that's going to be at the front of your mind by default. (Though I have a higher-level question here: why are we simply believing stated reasons for rejection? People lie about that all the time. It's not you, it's me. People try to avoid confrontations. Someone who's blatantly lying to everyone else has to consider the possibility that they're being lied to as well.) I have no problem accepting two things from this account: high-effort communication helps, and not being in disguise helps. I think anything beyond that is largely speculative and especially don't see any contradictions.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > I wonder what percentage of these women would've guessed right had she straight-up asked "do you think I'm a man or do you think I'm a woman pretending to be a man"? This is a question that can't be usefully asked -- it would never come up in any normal circumstance, so just the fact that you asked tends to give the answer away. > not being in disguise helps. Women don't seem to agree with you. I've seen some pretty dramatic "makeup / no makeup" picture spreads.
    - majormajor 5y ago
      Yes, precisely. Hardly anyone is going to guess that organically, so all the little tells that an imperfect pretender would give are just going to read as hard-to-nail-down oddities that will leave many people looking for a polite way of saying "thanks but no thanks." Those sorts of discrepancies are going to be of an entirely different nature than "makeup," it's much more like watching a movie with a performance that you just don't find convincing.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  > I'm not sure what difference you see between "rejecting someone for not being masculine enough" and "questioning whether they are, in fact, a man". One of those is a personal taste, the other is an alarm bell that you are being deceived, possibly failing to hit a number of subconscious sensors.
visarga 5y ago
Seems like a serious breach of ethics to lie to those women.

thaumasiotes 5y ago

One girl she dated revealed afterwards that she had referred to Ned as "my gay boyfriend". I'm not sure what difference you see between "rejecting someone for not being masculine enough" and "questioning whether they are, in fact, a man".

majormajor 5y ago
> I'm not sure what difference you see between "rejecting someone for not being masculine enough" and "questioning whether they are, in fact, a man". I wonder what percentage of these women would've guessed right had she straight-up asked "do you think I'm a man or do you think I'm a woman pretending to be a man"? That's the difference - the idea that someone you're dating is deceiving you on such a huge level isn't something that's going to be at the front of your mind by default. (Though I have a higher-level question here: why are we simply believing stated reasons for rejection? People lie about that all the time. It's not you, it's me. People try to avoid confrontations. Someone who's blatantly lying to everyone else has to consider the possibility that they're being lied to as well.) I have no problem accepting two things from this account: high-effort communication helps, and not being in disguise helps. I think anything beyond that is largely speculative and especially don't see any contradictions.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > I wonder what percentage of these women would've guessed right had she straight-up asked "do you think I'm a man or do you think I'm a woman pretending to be a man"? This is a question that can't be usefully asked -- it would never come up in any normal circumstance, so just the fact that you asked tends to give the answer away. > not being in disguise helps. Women don't seem to agree with you. I've seen some pretty dramatic "makeup / no makeup" picture spreads.
  - majormajor 5y ago
    Yes, precisely. Hardly anyone is going to guess that organically, so all the little tells that an imperfect pretender would give are just going to read as hard-to-nail-down oddities that will leave many people looking for a polite way of saying "thanks but no thanks." Those sorts of discrepancies are going to be of an entirely different nature than "makeup," it's much more like watching a movie with a performance that you just don't find convincing.
spywaregorilla 5y ago
> I'm not sure what difference you see between "rejecting someone for not being masculine enough" and "questioning whether they are, in fact, a man". One of those is a personal taste, the other is an alarm bell that you are being deceived, possibly failing to hit a number of subconscious sensors.

visarga 5y ago

Seems like a serious breach of ethics to lie to those women.