5 ms·

Will this make New York more or less left wing? I'm actually curious.

slownews45 5y ago
If it's also tied to open primary system it tends to make right wing places more left and left wing places more moderate. Otherwise you get a pyramid of control that drives towards extremes. Historically, let's say dems = 51% of voters, everyone votes party line. Dems have a primary, and someone (usually pretty far left) motivates base and gets 30% of primary vote and wins primary with most votes. Let's assume a 10% of dem's vote in primaries. So you have 10% * 50% * 30% = 1.5% of voters voting for the primary winner. They then go onto a matchup in general, but because it's a dem district, they win there as well (republicans usually also pick someone further right). So 1.5% of more extreme / activist voters end up really deciding, because by the time you get to general there is no more competition.
- gipp 5y ago
  NY primaries are closed, but themselves now use RCV, and have much higher turnout than that, since they are usually the de facto general election.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  This "pyramid of control" observation is extremely under-appreciated. We are living in a time of extreme polarization and division, not just between parties but within them, as societies try to deal with an increasingly complex world where shifting battlefronts no longer align with traditional ideological boundaries, all while we're being mesmerized by the novel psychological environment that social media creates. Even if the "pyramid of control" doesn't drive parties towards extremes, it perhaps drives them towards memes; that is, simplistic but clear ideas that stand out among the noise. Unfortunately, while that might be enough to create a coherent identity for a party, it doesn't do anything to guarantee that the party has any sort of broad support from the population, which further alienates people from politics.
belval 5y ago
This type of voting usually leads to more centrist politicians taking office because they are the second choice of the majority.
r3trohack3r 5y ago
I think the answer is: it depends. A weird take on the U.S. constitution: it actually established 4 "branches" of government. Citizen oversight was one of 4 powers designed to keep government in check. It's hard to look at today's America and feel like citizens have much oversight of government. Our "branch" has been systematically eroded. The current first-past-the-post system has been gamed heavily by two parties to reduce the impact citizens have on the outcome of elections. RCV helps restore civilian oversight (many forms of voter suppression, i.e. gerrymandering, are less effective under RCV). My current thinking: feeling this will result in more "left" or "right" leaning governing bodies is a reflection of how citizen's want their government run. If the "silent majority" is right leaning, this will result in right leaning politics; left would yield left. But the "leaning" of the politics is less important to me as an outcome. The most important outcome is that citizens are restored to their rightful role in government: acting as a proper "check and balance" to the other 3 branches.
sremani 5y ago
You end up with Candidates who are neither principled nor charismatic but have blessings of Party Boss and fits in a narrow zone of like/dislike factor.
nemo44x 5y ago
I imagine less. In primaries you attract voters that are more fanatical and extreme so they have a better chance of pushing through a candidate they see as ideologically pure. When the opposition party has no chance of winning it becomes the de facto election and you have a better chance of ending up with polarizing candidate. NYC isn’t as super progressive as people think but there is certainly a progressive streak and they are louder than their numbers. They organize and they vote in primaries and that has been their strategy the last decade to assume outsized power. Because many moderate liberals won’t likely vote for a Republican in today’s climate it works. Hence BDB as mayor whom is despised by moderate liberals. So this should redirect power to the Democratic machine in NYC and make it more difficult for far left progressives who really been hijacking the Democratic Party by virtue of the primary system.

If it's also tied to open primary system it tends to make right wing places more left and left wing places more moderate. Otherwise you get a pyramid of control that drives towards extremes. Historically, let's say dems = 51% of voters, everyone votes party line. Dems have a primary, and someone (usually pretty far left) motivates base and gets 30% of primary vote and wins primary with most votes. Let's assume a 10% of dem's vote in primaries. So you have 10% * 50% * 30% = 1.5% of voters voting for the primary winner. They then go onto a matchup in general, but because it's a dem district, they win there as well (republicans usually also pick someone further right). So 1.5% of more extreme / activist voters end up really deciding, because by the time you get to general there is no more competition.

gipp 5y ago
NY primaries are closed, but themselves now use RCV, and have much higher turnout than that, since they are usually the de facto general election.
dane-pgp 5y ago
This "pyramid of control" observation is extremely under-appreciated. We are living in a time of extreme polarization and division, not just between parties but within them, as societies try to deal with an increasingly complex world where shifting battlefronts no longer align with traditional ideological boundaries, all while we're being mesmerized by the novel psychological environment that social media creates. Even if the "pyramid of control" doesn't drive parties towards extremes, it perhaps drives them towards memes; that is, simplistic but clear ideas that stand out among the noise. Unfortunately, while that might be enough to create a coherent identity for a party, it doesn't do anything to guarantee that the party has any sort of broad support from the population, which further alienates people from politics.

belval 5y ago

This type of voting usually leads to more centrist politicians taking office because they are the second choice of the majority.

r3trohack3r 5y ago

I think the answer is: it depends. A weird take on the U.S. constitution: it actually established 4 "branches" of government. Citizen oversight was one of 4 powers designed to keep government in check. It's hard to look at today's America and feel like citizens have much oversight of government. Our "branch" has been systematically eroded. The current first-past-the-post system has been gamed heavily by two parties to reduce the impact citizens have on the outcome of elections. RCV helps restore civilian oversight (many forms of voter suppression, i.e. gerrymandering, are less effective under RCV). My current thinking: feeling this will result in more "left" or "right" leaning governing bodies is a reflection of how citizen's want their government run. If the "silent majority" is right leaning, this will result in right leaning politics; left would yield left. But the "leaning" of the politics is less important to me as an outcome. The most important outcome is that citizens are restored to their rightful role in government: acting as a proper "check and balance" to the other 3 branches.

sremani 5y ago

You end up with Candidates who are neither principled nor charismatic but have blessings of Party Boss and fits in a narrow zone of like/dislike factor.

nemo44x 5y ago

I imagine less. In primaries you attract voters that are more fanatical and extreme so they have a better chance of pushing through a candidate they see as ideologically pure. When the opposition party has no chance of winning it becomes the de facto election and you have a better chance of ending up with polarizing candidate. NYC isn’t as super progressive as people think but there is certainly a progressive streak and they are louder than their numbers. They organize and they vote in primaries and that has been their strategy the last decade to assume outsized power. Because many moderate liberals won’t likely vote for a Republican in today’s climate it works. Hence BDB as mayor whom is despised by moderate liberals. So this should redirect power to the Democratic machine in NYC and make it more difficult for far left progressives who really been hijacking the Democratic Party by virtue of the primary system.