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and the feminine style of her writing appeals to them in a way that the feminine style of her body and personality doesn't. I have trouble imagining how that w

and the feminine style of her writing appeals to them in a way that the feminine style of her body and personality doesn't. I have trouble imagining how that was determined. Everything I have seen indicates women expect you to emotionally bond and establish a relationship before they can get all hot and bothered and men don't typically need that. That may have nothing to do with writing style and everything to do with simply being willing to put in the time.

spywaregorilla 5y ago
I feel like by "writing style" they meant "communication style".
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  Personality and writing style or communication style tend to be related. Meeting in person exposes you to many factors more than just looks. Smell is a big thing that people are often not consciously aware of but if you are a heterosexual female and you meet a woman dressed as a man, you may subconsciously react to "This doesn't smell like a man. Something ain't right." Voice tone is another. It has nothing to do with communication style, but her voice just may not be deep enough for a heterosexual woman to go "Yeah, I would hit that." People seem to think it boils down to "looks" or something and that doesn't really fit with what I understand about life, the universe and everything.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > Smell is a big thing that people are often not consciously aware of but if you are a heterosexual female and you meet a woman dressed as a man, you may subconsciously react to "This doesn't smell like a man. Something ain't right." No comments on smell were noted, but she did get comments about not being hairy.
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      Commenting on smell tends to not be socially acceptable and people are often not consciously aware of it. Hairiness is definitely a gender difference and helps people sort the boys from the girls, so to speak.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - dumpsterdiver 5y ago
        Not only that, but sensing pheromones via the olfactory system is both a very subtle and primal experience.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - pseudalopex 5y ago
      I thought they meant pheromones.
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
    https://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Year-Disguised/dp/0143038702?asin=0143038702&revisionId=&format=4&depth=1 https://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Year-Disguised/d... Based on this cover, I would have thought it was a very gender neutral looking person, and probably a lot less masculine if she wasn't frowning like that. But yeah, there's a huge difference between not being masculine enough vs. not being obviously a man.
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      The first photo reads to me as "clearly a woman" and based on that photo I have trouble imagining she actually passed for male. The second photo reads to me as "clearly a loser with no self esteem who is going to cry on my shoulder." I can imagine the second photo passing as male but not in a good way. There are subtle body language differences between men and women and that may be a factor. I'm tall for a woman. I've had very short hair for like fifteen years. It didn't initially get me mistaken for male. After being homeless for a year, people began calling me "sir" if they initially saw me from the back. (I would turn around and they would apologize for their error.) That was partly due to clothing but probably also my body language changed in ways I was not conscious of. There are myriad subtle details that help us distinguish male from female. It isn't any one thing. Edit: I will add her hair is hair that is short for a woman but on the long side for a man. Men with long hair are often bearded. They have hair all over. The photos are almost an uncanny valley in terms of trying to look like a man. Like she didn't quite get it but thought she did.
thaumasiotes 5y ago
> These women wanted to be wooed by language. They weren't going to meet a strange man without measuring him first, and they weren't going to waste a meal or even a cup of coffee on a suitor who couldn't be bothered to craft a few lines beforehand. I was happy to oblige. The seductive effect of a well-written letter or, better yet, a well-chosen poem, on a strange woman's mind was often strong and sometimes hilariously so, even to the women involved, who were quite aware and ready to laugh about the effect distracting missives could have on them. One date told me, long after she'd dated Ned [the author's male alter ego] and learned his secret, that a coworker, reading one of Ned's e-mails over her shoulder, had said "Shit. He's sending you poems? You'd better fuck this man." > Ned made an impression not just because he gave these women at least a pale version of the reading material they seemed to crave, but because he did it so willingly. It was rare, most of them told me, for a man to write at such length, much less to write with consideration and investment.
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  My father and ex husband both wrote poems. There's nothing inherently gendered about writing rhymes. It was rare, most of them told me, for a man to write at such length, much less to write with consideration and investment. To me, that boils down to what I tried to say above: women expect commitment and evidence that you will stick around. "Writing at length" is, in part, simply a matter of putting in the time.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > To me, that boils down to what I tried to say above: women expect commitment and evidence that you will stick around. I think this is a difference in perception. Sending poetry is not commitment or evidence that you will stick around. But women may perceive it as being that anyway. More generally, I see systematic and large differences in how men and women choose to describe exactly the same behavior. I like Craig Morgan's song That's Why. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEfJ8Q6keRk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEfJ8Q6keRk ) And a primary message that I see in it is that one way to be valuable as a husband and father is by paying the family's expenses. I expressed this idea to my sister and she was disgusted with my point of view. But when, later, I played the song for her and asked what she thought, what she thought was "that guy sounds really sweet".

spywaregorilla 5y ago

I feel like by "writing style" they meant "communication style".

DoreenMichele 5y ago
Personality and writing style or communication style tend to be related. Meeting in person exposes you to many factors more than just looks. Smell is a big thing that people are often not consciously aware of but if you are a heterosexual female and you meet a woman dressed as a man, you may subconsciously react to "This doesn't smell like a man. Something ain't right." Voice tone is another. It has nothing to do with communication style, but her voice just may not be deep enough for a heterosexual woman to go "Yeah, I would hit that." People seem to think it boils down to "looks" or something and that doesn't really fit with what I understand about life, the universe and everything.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > Smell is a big thing that people are often not consciously aware of but if you are a heterosexual female and you meet a woman dressed as a man, you may subconsciously react to "This doesn't smell like a man. Something ain't right." No comments on smell were noted, but she did get comments about not being hairy.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    Commenting on smell tends to not be socially acceptable and people are often not consciously aware of it. Hairiness is definitely a gender difference and helps people sort the boys from the girls, so to speak.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - dumpsterdiver 5y ago
      Not only that, but sensing pheromones via the olfactory system is both a very subtle and primal experience.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    I thought they meant pheromones.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  https://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Year-Disguised/dp/0143038702?asin=0143038702&revisionId=&format=4&depth=1 https://www.amazon.com/Self-Made-Man-Womans-Year-Disguised/d... Based on this cover, I would have thought it was a very gender neutral looking person, and probably a lot less masculine if she wasn't frowning like that. But yeah, there's a huge difference between not being masculine enough vs. not being obviously a man.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    The first photo reads to me as "clearly a woman" and based on that photo I have trouble imagining she actually passed for male. The second photo reads to me as "clearly a loser with no self esteem who is going to cry on my shoulder." I can imagine the second photo passing as male but not in a good way. There are subtle body language differences between men and women and that may be a factor. I'm tall for a woman. I've had very short hair for like fifteen years. It didn't initially get me mistaken for male. After being homeless for a year, people began calling me "sir" if they initially saw me from the back. (I would turn around and they would apologize for their error.) That was partly due to clothing but probably also my body language changed in ways I was not conscious of. There are myriad subtle details that help us distinguish male from female. It isn't any one thing. Edit: I will add her hair is hair that is short for a woman but on the long side for a man. Men with long hair are often bearded. They have hair all over. The photos are almost an uncanny valley in terms of trying to look like a man. Like she didn't quite get it but thought she did.

thaumasiotes 5y ago

> These women wanted to be wooed by language. They weren't going to meet a strange man without measuring him first, and they weren't going to waste a meal or even a cup of coffee on a suitor who couldn't be bothered to craft a few lines beforehand. I was happy to oblige. The seductive effect of a well-written letter or, better yet, a well-chosen poem, on a strange woman's mind was often strong and sometimes hilariously so, even to the women involved, who were quite aware and ready to laugh about the effect distracting missives could have on them. One date told me, long after she'd dated Ned [the author's male alter ego] and learned his secret, that a coworker, reading one of Ned's e-mails over her shoulder, had said "Shit. He's sending you poems? You'd better fuck this man." > Ned made an impression not just because he gave these women at least a pale version of the reading material they seemed to crave, but because he did it so willingly. It was rare, most of them told me, for a man to write at such length, much less to write with consideration and investment.

DoreenMichele 5y ago
My father and ex husband both wrote poems. There's nothing inherently gendered about writing rhymes. It was rare, most of them told me, for a man to write at such length, much less to write with consideration and investment. To me, that boils down to what I tried to say above: women expect commitment and evidence that you will stick around. "Writing at length" is, in part, simply a matter of putting in the time.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > To me, that boils down to what I tried to say above: women expect commitment and evidence that you will stick around. I think this is a difference in perception. Sending poetry is not commitment or evidence that you will stick around. But women may perceive it as being that anyway. More generally, I see systematic and large differences in how men and women choose to describe exactly the same behavior. I like Craig Morgan's song That's Why. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEfJ8Q6keRk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEfJ8Q6keRk ) And a primary message that I see in it is that one way to be valuable as a husband and father is by paying the family's expenses. I expressed this idea to my sister and she was disgusted with my point of view. But when, later, I played the song for her and asked what she thought, what she thought was "that guy sounds really sweet".