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I’m not making up claims I’m repeating what doctors and nurses have come out and said - they were told to mark deaths as COVID related if the patient had a posi

by desine 5y ago

I’m not making up claims I’m repeating what doctors and nurses have come out and said - they were told to mark deaths as COVID related if the patient had a positive test result, even when cause of death was not specifically COVID related. Many “whistleblowers” (a bit of a stretch since it is not fraud or illegal) have spoken out on this. The CDC changed the policy of an asymptomatic patient’s positive PCR test counting as a a “case” in January of this year. Now, symptoms or multiple positive tests are required. This is hard fact not some spurious claim.

dntrkv 5y ago
We can go back and forth about what constitutes a "COVID death," but if you look at excess mortality for 2020/2021 you will see that if anything, we are under-counting COVID deaths. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the false positive PCR tests in asymptomatic patients, but false positives in PCR tests are rare and would barely impact the numerator.
triceratops 5y ago
> they were told to mark deaths as COVID related if the patient had a positive test result, even when cause of death was not specifically COVID related What's "specifically Covid related"? If a cancer patient catches Covid and takes a turn for the worse, it's fair to call Covid the cause of death. Did a sudden surge of people with asymptomatic Covid die in car crashes and cause LA to run out of crematoria capacity in January and February? The unbiased way to look at it is excess deaths, since Covid was the only new major cause of death last year. Going by that, about 40k people died of Covid in California in 2020, or about 0.1% of the state's population.[1] The actual number is probably higher than that because flu deaths are way down in 2020 due to Covid countermeasures. And California had about 5k flu deaths in 2019.[2] 1. https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/01/27/40000-excess-deaths-in-2020-and-other-things-we-learned-from-california-death-data/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/01/27/40000-excess-deaths-i... 2. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/flu_pneumonia_mortality/flu_pneumonia.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/flu_pneumonia_mort...
GhostVII 5y ago
You are making up claims, it is incredibly obvious if you spend even a little bit of time looking at the data that deaths and infections were underreported, not overreported. Stop spreading blatant misinformation. Of course in some cases deaths were misreported as being due to COVID. And there may have been a financial incentive in some cases. But the impact of that is orders of magnitude less than the number of deaths and infections that were missed due to low testing. Just look at the number of excess deaths. The picture is pretty clear.
- cthaeh 5y ago
  The issue with claiming that the pandemic caused these extra deaths is that we don't know if it did.this is because the reactions to covid (lockdown) could have just as easily impacted people dying. It's not so simple so as to attribute all excess mortality to covid.
  - dntrkv 5y ago
    Of course, that on its own is not enough to prove that all of the excess deaths are due to COVID. But when you have the count of COVID deaths, and they more or less match up with the number of excess deaths, I think it's a reasonable conclusion. Sure, there are excess deaths not accounted for and we can dig into those, but overall, the numbers match up. There's a bit of Occam's Razor here, too. We have an explanation with numbers that match up quite nicely. Yet, due to the politicization of the pandemic, you have claims that "we don't know for sure" or worse yet, alternate theories with absolutely zero evidence to back it up. I'm open to hear theories, just as long as there is data to support them. I haven't seen any.

by desine 5y ago

dntrkv 5y ago

We can go back and forth about what constitutes a "COVID death," but if you look at excess mortality for 2020/2021 you will see that if anything, we are under-counting COVID deaths. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the false positive PCR tests in asymptomatic patients, but false positives in PCR tests are rare and would barely impact the numerator.

triceratops 5y ago

> they were told to mark deaths as COVID related if the patient had a positive test result, even when cause of death was not specifically COVID related What's "specifically Covid related"? If a cancer patient catches Covid and takes a turn for the worse, it's fair to call Covid the cause of death. Did a sudden surge of people with asymptomatic Covid die in car crashes and cause LA to run out of crematoria capacity in January and February? The unbiased way to look at it is excess deaths, since Covid was the only new major cause of death last year. Going by that, about 40k people died of Covid in California in 2020, or about 0.1% of the state's population.[1] The actual number is probably higher than that because flu deaths are way down in 2020 due to Covid countermeasures. And California had about 5k flu deaths in 2019.[2] 1. https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/01/27/40000-excess-deaths-in-2020-and-other-things-we-learned-from-california-death-data/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/01/27/40000-excess-deaths-i... 2. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/flu_pneumonia_mortality/flu_pneumonia.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/flu_pneumonia_mort...

GhostVII 5y ago

You are making up claims, it is incredibly obvious if you spend even a little bit of time looking at the data that deaths and infections were underreported, not overreported. Stop spreading blatant misinformation. Of course in some cases deaths were misreported as being due to COVID. And there may have been a financial incentive in some cases. But the impact of that is orders of magnitude less than the number of deaths and infections that were missed due to low testing. Just look at the number of excess deaths. The picture is pretty clear.

cthaeh 5y ago
The issue with claiming that the pandemic caused these extra deaths is that we don't know if it did.this is because the reactions to covid (lockdown) could have just as easily impacted people dying. It's not so simple so as to attribute all excess mortality to covid.
- dntrkv 5y ago
  Of course, that on its own is not enough to prove that all of the excess deaths are due to COVID. But when you have the count of COVID deaths, and they more or less match up with the number of excess deaths, I think it's a reasonable conclusion. Sure, there are excess deaths not accounted for and we can dig into those, but overall, the numbers match up. There's a bit of Occam's Razor here, too. We have an explanation with numbers that match up quite nicely. Yet, due to the politicization of the pandemic, you have claims that "we don't know for sure" or worse yet, alternate theories with absolutely zero evidence to back it up. I'm open to hear theories, just as long as there is data to support them. I haven't seen any.