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Daily reminder that cryptocurrencies are not == bitcoin All the problems with bitcoin are long long solved just not with bitcoin because its not possible to fi

by noxer 5y ago

Daily reminder that cryptocurrencies are not == bitcoin All the problems with bitcoin are long long solved just not with bitcoin because its not possible to fix something when the majority (of hashpower) thinks its not broken or rather profit form its brokenness. FBA coins exists since 2013 or so.

normac2 5y ago
Would you include environmental impact as a solved problem? My understanding is that Proof of Stake is the best serious option and that it's very controversial if it'll work.
- noxer 5y ago
  Solves as in it does not use more energy than what the hardware needs to process the data + it doubles every time you double the number of nodes (obviously since they all have to do the same work too) Its not wasting energy for a PoW lottery it just uses energy like a comparable instant messenger with global server farm would. The more people who use it the more energy it will use there is no way around that. FBA is completely different form PoS. It does not work on incentives and penalties it works with a global final state, global rules and (federated) byzantine agreement (FBA) for progress (adding the next "block"). No way to re-org, no block/staking reward, no censorship. If someone doesn't act in everyone's interest other nodes simply wont listen to them anymore. Not following the rules its publicly visible for anyone. And since there is no reward anyway there is no financial reason why anyone would participate who does not simply want to help the system.
- wyager 5y ago
  Proof of stake lacks the security properties of proof of work, e.g. via grinding attacks.
  - AlexCoventry 5y ago
    Grinding attacks aren't a problem if you include secure verifiable randomness in the protocol. E.g., Algorand's VRF-based sortition, or Ethereum 2.0's verifiable delay function.
wyager 5y ago
FBA is centralized. Period. There’s a reason ripple hasn’t dominated the secure payments industry.
- noxer 5y ago
  faceplam FBA is a technology its not a thing or a running system. It can not be centralized its just bunch of math that BTW is mathematically proven to work. There are many FBA based "blockchains" out there some centralized some not. Ripple is a company that uses such a FBA system.
Permit 5y ago
> Daily reminder that cryptocurrencies are not == bitcoin This is an interesting feature of cryptocurrencies. Someone levels a fair criticism of a particular implementation but it can be handwaved away because an entirely separate cryptocurrency solved this particular problem (nevermind that whatever replacement you’ve chosen has its own host of separate problems because those can be handwaved away the same way).
- Karsteski 5y ago
  Handwaved away? You mean improved?
- noxer 5y ago
  I did not hand wave anything away, maybe read the thread. There was a wrong generalization (cryptocurrencies == bitcoin) about cryptocurrencies that is very common but not accurate at all. Fair criticism on the Ford Model T does not apply to cars.

by noxer 5y ago

normac2 5y ago

Would you include environmental impact as a solved problem? My understanding is that Proof of Stake is the best serious option and that it's very controversial if it'll work.

noxer 5y ago
Solves as in it does not use more energy than what the hardware needs to process the data + it doubles every time you double the number of nodes (obviously since they all have to do the same work too) Its not wasting energy for a PoW lottery it just uses energy like a comparable instant messenger with global server farm would. The more people who use it the more energy it will use there is no way around that. FBA is completely different form PoS. It does not work on incentives and penalties it works with a global final state, global rules and (federated) byzantine agreement (FBA) for progress (adding the next "block"). No way to re-org, no block/staking reward, no censorship. If someone doesn't act in everyone's interest other nodes simply wont listen to them anymore. Not following the rules its publicly visible for anyone. And since there is no reward anyway there is no financial reason why anyone would participate who does not simply want to help the system.
wyager 5y ago
Proof of stake lacks the security properties of proof of work, e.g. via grinding attacks.
- AlexCoventry 5y ago
  Grinding attacks aren't a problem if you include secure verifiable randomness in the protocol. E.g., Algorand's VRF-based sortition, or Ethereum 2.0's verifiable delay function.

wyager 5y ago

FBA is centralized. Period. There’s a reason ripple hasn’t dominated the secure payments industry.

noxer 5y ago
faceplam FBA is a technology its not a thing or a running system. It can not be centralized its just bunch of math that BTW is mathematically proven to work. There are many FBA based "blockchains" out there some centralized some not. Ripple is a company that uses such a FBA system.

Permit 5y ago

> Daily reminder that cryptocurrencies are not == bitcoin This is an interesting feature of cryptocurrencies. Someone levels a fair criticism of a particular implementation but it can be handwaved away because an entirely separate cryptocurrency solved this particular problem (nevermind that whatever replacement you’ve chosen has its own host of separate problems because those can be handwaved away the same way).

Karsteski 5y ago
Handwaved away? You mean improved?
noxer 5y ago
I did not hand wave anything away, maybe read the thread. There was a wrong generalization (cryptocurrencies == bitcoin) about cryptocurrencies that is very common but not accurate at all. Fair criticism on the Ford Model T does not apply to cars.