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And forgiving student loans is a slap in the face to any middle class family that had to scrimp and sacrifice for over a decade. Paying off somebody's loans is

And forgiving student loans is a slap in the face to any middle class family that had to scrimp and sacrifice for over a decade. Paying off somebody's loans is always a slap to somebody's face.

ryandrake 5y ago
Uplifting someone else who needs it doesn’t slap my face. I paid off all my student loans myself, but I’m still for loan forgiveness and free, subsidized education. We’ve got to get past this zero-sum “he wins therefore I lose” mentality.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  The (federal) government can print money. States can issue debt. There is no reason governments cannot give the same amount of cash to everyone, thereby not punishing those who played it safe. The constant bailing out of only those who take risks is just socialization of risk and privatization of profit, I.e. corruption.
  - jude- 5y ago
    You aren't being punished if someone else's life circumstances improve. Also, do you really think that the average American who has been saddled with the average amount of student loan debt would really be in a superior financial position if their debts were lifted tomorrow? The debt itself was preventing them from doing other economically productive things (like buying more goods and services, investing money, buying a house) that generate tax revenue. I wouldn't be surprised if forgiving all student debts turns out to be the economically favorable thing to do in the long run.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      >You aren't being punished if someone else's life circumstances improve. If it causes the currency to lose value, then it is a loss for everyone. Go ahead and help the average American, just do it by giving everyone the same amount of money.
      - jude- 5y ago
        Your currency losing value is not the same as someone else's life circumstances improving. This program is about compensating landlords who were forced to provide housing for free, much like how hospitals get compensated to provide medical care to people who can't pay. I see no complaints about the latter, even though it's the same mechanism as the former.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > This program is about compensating landlords who were forced to provide housing for free, much like how hospitals get compensated to provide medical care to people who can't pay. I see no complaints about the latter, Un, that’s an uncompensated condition of Medicare participation, and there are lots of complaints from hospitals about the lack of compensation, and from small government types about the mandate and its affect on costs for those who can pay, and even the existence of “socialist” Medicare in the first place.
        jude- 5y ago
        First, hospitals do get compensated some by both Medicare insurance and Medicaid; it's just not enough [1]. Second, a growing majority (63% as of 2020) of US adults want there to be at least a public option for healthcare [2]. Do you think hospitals should not be compensated for giving care to people who can't afford to pay? [1] https://www.aha.org/system/files/2018-01/factsheet-hospital-billing-explained-9-2017.pdf https://www.aha.org/system/files/2018-01/factsheet-hospital-... [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-...

And forgiving student loans is a slap in the face to any middle class family that had to scrimp and sacrifice for over a decade. Paying off somebody's loans is always a slap to somebody's face.

ryandrake 5y ago

Uplifting someone else who needs it doesn’t slap my face. I paid off all my student loans myself, but I’m still for loan forgiveness and free, subsidized education. We’ve got to get past this zero-sum “he wins therefore I lose” mentality.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
The (federal) government can print money. States can issue debt. There is no reason governments cannot give the same amount of cash to everyone, thereby not punishing those who played it safe. The constant bailing out of only those who take risks is just socialization of risk and privatization of profit, I.e. corruption.
- jude- 5y ago
  You aren't being punished if someone else's life circumstances improve. Also, do you really think that the average American who has been saddled with the average amount of student loan debt would really be in a superior financial position if their debts were lifted tomorrow? The debt itself was preventing them from doing other economically productive things (like buying more goods and services, investing money, buying a house) that generate tax revenue. I wouldn't be surprised if forgiving all student debts turns out to be the economically favorable thing to do in the long run.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    >You aren't being punished if someone else's life circumstances improve. If it causes the currency to lose value, then it is a loss for everyone. Go ahead and help the average American, just do it by giving everyone the same amount of money.
    - jude- 5y ago
      Your currency losing value is not the same as someone else's life circumstances improving. This program is about compensating landlords who were forced to provide housing for free, much like how hospitals get compensated to provide medical care to people who can't pay. I see no complaints about the latter, even though it's the same mechanism as the former.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > This program is about compensating landlords who were forced to provide housing for free, much like how hospitals get compensated to provide medical care to people who can't pay. I see no complaints about the latter, Un, that’s an uncompensated condition of Medicare participation, and there are lots of complaints from hospitals about the lack of compensation, and from small government types about the mandate and its affect on costs for those who can pay, and even the existence of “socialist” Medicare in the first place.
        jude- 5y ago
        First, hospitals do get compensated some by both Medicare insurance and Medicaid; it's just not enough [1]. Second, a growing majority (63% as of 2020) of US adults want there to be at least a public option for healthcare [2]. Do you think hospitals should not be compensated for giving care to people who can't afford to pay? [1] https://www.aha.org/system/files/2018-01/factsheet-hospital-billing-explained-9-2017.pdf https://www.aha.org/system/files/2018-01/factsheet-hospital-... [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-...