4 ms·

When the SAT / ACT are thrown out and companies are no longer hiring based on merit, but other characteristics, is it any wonder that people would think that ha

When the SAT / ACT are thrown out and companies are no longer hiring based on merit, but other characteristics, is it any wonder that people would think that hard work doesn't matter? These people are one step away from thinking about how to game the system and work smarter/ differently than just working hard.

spamizbad 5y ago
But the SAT/ACT aren't thrown out. They are still widely used. And this phenomena is pretty sweeping and goes beyond jobs that require college (and therefor people who took or give a hoot about the ACT/SAT). The world does not turn on elite cultural panic.
- ble 5y ago
  > The world does not turn on elite cultural panic. Hear hear! I feel it should be said as a bookend: elite media discourse _does_ turn on elite cultural panic.
phamilton 5y ago
> game the system > SAT / ACT It's pretty well established that the SAT / ACT are very straightforward to game. The existing system is gamed. It's not gamed towards intelligence or ingenuity, it's gamed towards hard work, which is mostly a proxy for time.
- tester756 5y ago
  any better alternative?
- runbathtime 5y ago
  If it can be gamed through hard work then why doesn't everyone who is willing to put it hard work get great scores? Yes it does measure ability. Maybe hard work or practice helps some, I'm not excluding that.
  - phamilton 5y ago
    > why doesn't everyone who is willing Not everyone can afford to take it multiple times, do test prep courses, etc. A good read: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2019/12/11/lawsuit-claims-sat-and-act-are-biased-heres-what-research-says/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2019/12/11/lawsuit-...
    - runbathtime 5y ago
      It doesn't make much of a difference. And not everyone can afford good organic food or private school. This isn't a good argument.
pessimizer 5y ago
I got very high SAT scores, didn't work very hard at all, and rarely showed up to school. I sped through the last part to go do drugs with two of my friends. I understand the moralism, but high SAT scores aren't work.
- runbathtime 5y ago
  Ability counts, hard work isn't the end goal. The SAT is supposed to measure ability, because grades are a better measurement of hard work. The SAT is valued more highly than grades.

spamizbad 5y ago

But the SAT/ACT aren't thrown out. They are still widely used. And this phenomena is pretty sweeping and goes beyond jobs that require college (and therefor people who took or give a hoot about the ACT/SAT). The world does not turn on elite cultural panic.

ble 5y ago
> The world does not turn on elite cultural panic. Hear hear! I feel it should be said as a bookend: elite media discourse _does_ turn on elite cultural panic.

phamilton 5y ago

> game the system > SAT / ACT It's pretty well established that the SAT / ACT are very straightforward to game. The existing system is gamed. It's not gamed towards intelligence or ingenuity, it's gamed towards hard work, which is mostly a proxy for time.

tester756 5y ago
any better alternative?
runbathtime 5y ago
If it can be gamed through hard work then why doesn't everyone who is willing to put it hard work get great scores? Yes it does measure ability. Maybe hard work or practice helps some, I'm not excluding that.
- phamilton 5y ago
  > why doesn't everyone who is willing Not everyone can afford to take it multiple times, do test prep courses, etc. A good read: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2019/12/11/lawsuit-claims-sat-and-act-are-biased-heres-what-research-says/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2019/12/11/lawsuit-...
  - runbathtime 5y ago
    It doesn't make much of a difference. And not everyone can afford good organic food or private school. This isn't a good argument.

pessimizer 5y ago

I got very high SAT scores, didn't work very hard at all, and rarely showed up to school. I sped through the last part to go do drugs with two of my friends. I understand the moralism, but high SAT scores aren't work.

runbathtime 5y ago
Ability counts, hard work isn't the end goal. The SAT is supposed to measure ability, because grades are a better measurement of hard work. The SAT is valued more highly than grades.