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The middle class family that halted saving for a home to pay for rent is not harmed here? I would be furious. There’s certainly harm in policies that reduce tru

The middle class family that halted saving for a home to pay for rent is not harmed here? I would be furious. There’s certainly harm in policies that reduce trust in the system. Something like a 0% interest loan from the government seems more fair here, but much harder to implement.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
The other fair way is give everyone the same amount of bailouts, regardless if they need it or not. This specific way (and all the other bailouts the US does) wrecks people who are responsible and save. But it should be clear to everyone by now that holding USD and playing it safe are the losing positions, as all risk will be socialized and profit will be privatized. Not playing the game means losing.
luffapi 5y ago
> The middle class family that halted saving for a home to pay for rent is not harmed here? No, the middle class family benefits because there isn’t an army of homeless people in their city. If landlords find their speculation doesn’t pay off, I’m not harmed. If millions of people are evicted, we are all harmed.
- fattire 5y ago
  Exactly.
Spivak 5y ago
You would be furious that someone who couldn't pay their rent is getting aid while someone who you, who could, isn't? I will never understand why people get so angry and others' lack of suffering. When you fall on hard times do you not wish that others not have to suffer like you did? "I had known I was going to get a bailout I would have purposely not met my contractual obligations" isn't really the best argument.
- refurb 5y ago
  You’re rewarding people who don’t meet their obligations (but could) and punishing people who did meet their obligations (but were hurt doing so). No so hard to understand.
  - Spivak 5y ago
    But nobody is being punished here. You are not any worse off than you were yesterday before the aid was announced. If you had known in advance that this aid was coming would you have stopped paying your rent? Would you have kept paying and sacrificed just because you could due to some sense of civic duty? Did you return your stimulus check because you didn't actually need it and could have sacrificed more? If you would have stopped paying then you're just mad that you didn't get out of your obligations and sacrificed when you didn't have to and feel like because of that you deserve it more, not that meeting one's obligations is something holy. I understand the anger. But we're supposed to take a step back and not be jealous about good things happening to others. Good for the people that didn't sacrifice and had a better quality life during COVID as a result. How could I ever wish anything else on them?
    - ecnahc515 5y ago
      There are plenty of people who probably made enough to continue paying rent, but chose not to because of the eviction moratorium. A tech worker could basically stop paying rent, stating they've been effected by COVID, even if they weren't, or if it was short-term, and then basically collect their tech salary check's while not paying rent. They _could_ pay, chose not to, and reaped the benefits.
      - ipaddr 5y ago
        Tech workers could have gambled that plat but few did unless they needed to. Plenty of rich people shoplift. It doesn't mean you should too. A percentage of people park in handicap spaces when they legally shouldn't. Some people feel entitled and will take advantage of any situation. You had to be that person above and still have the foresight to see this coming to pull off this scam.
risk000 5y ago
In this case we're pitting this theoretical family's feeling of being wronged, against the actual needs for shelter and economic solvency of another block of the population.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

The other fair way is give everyone the same amount of bailouts, regardless if they need it or not. This specific way (and all the other bailouts the US does) wrecks people who are responsible and save. But it should be clear to everyone by now that holding USD and playing it safe are the losing positions, as all risk will be socialized and profit will be privatized. Not playing the game means losing.

luffapi 5y ago

> The middle class family that halted saving for a home to pay for rent is not harmed here? No, the middle class family benefits because there isn’t an army of homeless people in their city. If landlords find their speculation doesn’t pay off, I’m not harmed. If millions of people are evicted, we are all harmed.

fattire 5y ago
Exactly.

Spivak 5y ago

You would be furious that someone who couldn't pay their rent is getting aid while someone who you, who could, isn't? I will never understand why people get so angry and others' lack of suffering. When you fall on hard times do you not wish that others not have to suffer like you did? "I had known I was going to get a bailout I would have purposely not met my contractual obligations" isn't really the best argument.

refurb 5y ago
You’re rewarding people who don’t meet their obligations (but could) and punishing people who did meet their obligations (but were hurt doing so). No so hard to understand.
- Spivak 5y ago
  But nobody is being punished here. You are not any worse off than you were yesterday before the aid was announced. If you had known in advance that this aid was coming would you have stopped paying your rent? Would you have kept paying and sacrificed just because you could due to some sense of civic duty? Did you return your stimulus check because you didn't actually need it and could have sacrificed more? If you would have stopped paying then you're just mad that you didn't get out of your obligations and sacrificed when you didn't have to and feel like because of that you deserve it more, not that meeting one's obligations is something holy. I understand the anger. But we're supposed to take a step back and not be jealous about good things happening to others. Good for the people that didn't sacrifice and had a better quality life during COVID as a result. How could I ever wish anything else on them?
  - ecnahc515 5y ago
    There are plenty of people who probably made enough to continue paying rent, but chose not to because of the eviction moratorium. A tech worker could basically stop paying rent, stating they've been effected by COVID, even if they weren't, or if it was short-term, and then basically collect their tech salary check's while not paying rent. They _could_ pay, chose not to, and reaped the benefits.
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      Tech workers could have gambled that plat but few did unless they needed to. Plenty of rich people shoplift. It doesn't mean you should too. A percentage of people park in handicap spaces when they legally shouldn't. Some people feel entitled and will take advantage of any situation. You had to be that person above and still have the foresight to see this coming to pull off this scam.

risk000 5y ago

In this case we're pitting this theoretical family's feeling of being wronged, against the actual needs for shelter and economic solvency of another block of the population.