4 ms·

>There's a very very fine line between "creepy" and "has game" and it usually comes down to how attractive you are which moulds how other people happen to perce

by rkk3 5y ago

>There's a very very fine line between "creepy" and "has game" and it usually comes down to how attractive you are which moulds how other people happen to perceive your advances. Yes, but not sure why that matters. The guy has a 6-pack does that change anything for you? https://twitter.com/noahbradley/status/1245397083529543680/photo/1 https://twitter.com/noahbradley/status/1245397083529543680/p...

dcow 5y ago
That was not my point. Furthermore attractiveness is subjective. Point is if that dude hit on you and you wanted that outcome, then it’s not problematic. If he hit on you and you didn't want it, then, these days, that’s all it takes for it to be problematic at least in the opinion of a few twitter users. This mode of operation is not realistic if you acknowledge humans get attracted to each other. If we approach society by making trying to hook up with someone a social crime, what does society look like?
- rkk3 5y ago
  The author acknowledged that he was an asshole and did things that were inappropriate, thats why he apologized... You are creating a straw-man not reflective of this scenario.
  - dcow 5y ago
    The whole problem is that Twitter crusaders created a false reality in the first place. It's not super productive to speculate on the details--we don't know them. What we do know is that no legal action was taken. Given the outburst, one would imagine there would be a lawyer willing to help the alleged victims press charges had any real problems existed.
    - rkk3 5y ago
      > What we do know is that no legal action was taken. Given the outburst, one would imagine there would be a lawyer willing to help the alleged victims press charges had any real problems existed. By his own written published apology he acted inappropriately. Real problems existed thats why he apologized. That no one sued him for tort is irrelevant.
      - dcow 5y ago
        It's not irrelevant when we're talking about social policy and one's ability to perform services for a company. A company can't fire you because you voted for candidate X. They can't fire you for saying you support candidate X's agenda, either. It doesn't matter if a bunch of people consider such an action inappropriate and you later apologize for associating with candidate X because you have come to see things differently now. It's a very similar situation: Noah liked to be forward with people. It wasn't a problem. Later, somebody decided Noah was too forward. Noah apologized. What's missing (unless you know more than I do) is the determination that Noah committed real sexual harassment. A "sorry I was inappropriate" is not the same as "this man harassed women in problematic ways". If Noah had actually committed sexual harassment there would be legal ramifications because sexual harassment is a real problem that society cares about. For me the distinction between social justice and legal justice matters. If a mob is free to extol its own judgement on people, then we do not have justice. We have mob rule. What's interesting is that if Noah had been convicted of sexual harassment and served his punishment, then it would be illegal in e.g. California for any company to weigh that information into future hiring decisions. So Noah is actually more damned for simply apologizing and trying to do the "right thing" than he would have been if he denied the allegations.
        rkk3 5y ago
        > "sorry I was inappropriate" is not the same as "this man harassed women in problematic ways". "I was terrible to women. I preyed on them, I ceaselessly hit on them, I pressured them into sex. Yes I was one of those creepy sexual predators you hear about"[1] He clearly admits to harassing women in problematic ways, for which his employer fired him[2]. It's pretty bizarre that you think it's not "real sexual harassment" because he wasn't sued. Have you ever been involved in a lawsuit? They are an incredible pain the ass for both sides. I know I personally wouldn't want to waste 2+ years of my life on one for something like this. [1]https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admits-to-being-a-sexual-predator-at-art-industry-events/ https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi... [2]https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/statement-regarding-noah-bradley-2020-06-22 https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/statement...
- renaudg 5y ago
  See also : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8

by rkk3 5y ago

dcow 5y ago

That was not my point. Furthermore attractiveness is subjective. Point is if that dude hit on you and you wanted that outcome, then it’s not problematic. If he hit on you and you didn't want it, then, these days, that’s all it takes for it to be problematic at least in the opinion of a few twitter users. This mode of operation is not realistic if you acknowledge humans get attracted to each other. If we approach society by making trying to hook up with someone a social crime, what does society look like?

rkk3 5y ago
The author acknowledged that he was an asshole and did things that were inappropriate, thats why he apologized... You are creating a straw-man not reflective of this scenario.
- dcow 5y ago
  The whole problem is that Twitter crusaders created a false reality in the first place. It's not super productive to speculate on the details--we don't know them. What we do know is that no legal action was taken. Given the outburst, one would imagine there would be a lawyer willing to help the alleged victims press charges had any real problems existed.
  - rkk3 5y ago
    > What we do know is that no legal action was taken. Given the outburst, one would imagine there would be a lawyer willing to help the alleged victims press charges had any real problems existed. By his own written published apology he acted inappropriately. Real problems existed thats why he apologized. That no one sued him for tort is irrelevant.
    - dcow 5y ago
      It's not irrelevant when we're talking about social policy and one's ability to perform services for a company. A company can't fire you because you voted for candidate X. They can't fire you for saying you support candidate X's agenda, either. It doesn't matter if a bunch of people consider such an action inappropriate and you later apologize for associating with candidate X because you have come to see things differently now. It's a very similar situation: Noah liked to be forward with people. It wasn't a problem. Later, somebody decided Noah was too forward. Noah apologized. What's missing (unless you know more than I do) is the determination that Noah committed real sexual harassment. A "sorry I was inappropriate" is not the same as "this man harassed women in problematic ways". If Noah had actually committed sexual harassment there would be legal ramifications because sexual harassment is a real problem that society cares about. For me the distinction between social justice and legal justice matters. If a mob is free to extol its own judgement on people, then we do not have justice. We have mob rule. What's interesting is that if Noah had been convicted of sexual harassment and served his punishment, then it would be illegal in e.g. California for any company to weigh that information into future hiring decisions. So Noah is actually more damned for simply apologizing and trying to do the "right thing" than he would have been if he denied the allegations.
      - rkk3 5y ago
        > "sorry I was inappropriate" is not the same as "this man harassed women in problematic ways". "I was terrible to women. I preyed on them, I ceaselessly hit on them, I pressured them into sex. Yes I was one of those creepy sexual predators you hear about"[1] He clearly admits to harassing women in problematic ways, for which his employer fired him[2]. It's pretty bizarre that you think it's not "real sexual harassment" because he wasn't sued. Have you ever been involved in a lawsuit? They are an incredible pain the ass for both sides. I know I personally wouldn't want to waste 2+ years of my life on one for something like this. [1]https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admits-to-being-a-sexual-predator-at-art-industry-events/ https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi... [2]https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/statement-regarding-noah-bradley-2020-06-22 https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/statement...
renaudg 5y ago
See also : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8