4 ms·

2001 High School Graduate - People told me everything would be outsourced to India and it wasn't worth getting started in programming.

by csours 5y ago

zffr 5y ago
I got told this as a 2010 high school graduate too! Didn’t listen since I loved programming and computers and it worked out well for me.
1-more 5y ago
I thought this when picking majors to graduate college in 2010, but I was able to switch in time. People look at me crazy when I say that!
zozbot234 5y ago
> People told me everything would be outsourced to India I'm not sure that this ever amounted to more than a urban legend. When you actually looked into the supposed outsourcing "trend", all you heard about was TheDailyWTF-grade horror stories.
- embeddTrway690 5y ago
  Now In India, students starting CS are often told "CS has no longer demand" in recent years. The problem was too many people entering engineering degrees after a temporary 'IT boom' decades ago, seeing that as a way towards upwards social mobility.
- mikestew 5y ago
  I'm not sure that this ever amounted to more than a urban legend. Urban legend? Entire books were written on the subject, by respected authors, too: https://www.amazon.com/Decline-American-Programmer-Edward-Yourdon/dp/013191958X https://www.amazon.com/Decline-American-Programmer-Edward-Yo... The book is not only pushing 30 years old, it was crap when I bought it in hardcover in '93, and whoo boy, did that one not age well.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  I don't know about the US but in the UK a lot of corporate development (Java type stuff) has been outsourced, often to India.
jfengel 5y ago
I graduated high school in 1988, and made the same assumption. I don't think anybody explicitly said it to me, but it seemed obvious. They're plenty smart and they're sufficiently good at English (often, flawless). I still don't entirely understand why it turns out to be so hard to outsource. I get some of it, but it seems like something that we should have figured out by now. I'll be interested to see what the post-pandemic shift to remote work does for that.
- philwelch 5y ago
  I think there are a number of factors in this: * It's difficult for Western businesses to time shift, and there are usually caps on work visas. * Perhaps until recently, most Western programmers genuinely enjoy the work. What I've heard from Indians is that many Indian programmers are more interested in building a career than in the work itself. Intrinstic vs. extrinsic motivation. I think this may be declining as a factor as software eats the rest of the US economy and brain drains talented people from other fields, though. * Cultural differences--it turns out that English fluency is necessary but not sufficient to seamlessly slot into an Anglosphere company. * One way out of this conundrum could be for new software companies to start in India and outcompete Western companies (at which point culture differences and time shift wouldn't matter), except I get the sense there are barriers to that.
- hnfong 5y ago
  I've been thinking the same as I read this discussion. My current best theory is that the software industry is overflowing with money, and it's still more beneficial to try to optimize for output quality and quantity (i.e. hire better software engineers no matter the cost, bring people into the same locality instead of hampering progress by splitting work into different timezones), instead of trying to cut costs to improve profits. Once the growth finally ends, outsourcing to cheaper places might become a very attractive option.

2001 High School Graduate - People told me everything would be outsourced to India and it wasn't worth getting started in programming.

by csours 5y ago

2001 High School Graduate - People told me everything would be outsourced to India and it wasn't worth getting started in programming.

zffr 5y ago

I got told this as a 2010 high school graduate too! Didn’t listen since I loved programming and computers and it worked out well for me.

1-more 5y ago

I thought this when picking majors to graduate college in 2010, but I was able to switch in time. People look at me crazy when I say that!

zozbot234 5y ago

> People told me everything would be outsourced to India I'm not sure that this ever amounted to more than a urban legend. When you actually looked into the supposed outsourcing "trend", all you heard about was TheDailyWTF-grade horror stories.

embeddTrway690 5y ago
Now In India, students starting CS are often told "CS has no longer demand" in recent years. The problem was too many people entering engineering degrees after a temporary 'IT boom' decades ago, seeing that as a way towards upwards social mobility.
mikestew 5y ago
I'm not sure that this ever amounted to more than a urban legend. Urban legend? Entire books were written on the subject, by respected authors, too: https://www.amazon.com/Decline-American-Programmer-Edward-Yourdon/dp/013191958X https://www.amazon.com/Decline-American-Programmer-Edward-Yo... The book is not only pushing 30 years old, it was crap when I bought it in hardcover in '93, and whoo boy, did that one not age well.
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
I don't know about the US but in the UK a lot of corporate development (Java type stuff) has been outsourced, often to India.

jfengel 5y ago

I graduated high school in 1988, and made the same assumption. I don't think anybody explicitly said it to me, but it seemed obvious. They're plenty smart and they're sufficiently good at English (often, flawless). I still don't entirely understand why it turns out to be so hard to outsource. I get some of it, but it seems like something that we should have figured out by now. I'll be interested to see what the post-pandemic shift to remote work does for that.

philwelch 5y ago
I think there are a number of factors in this: * It's difficult for Western businesses to time shift, and there are usually caps on work visas. * Perhaps until recently, most Western programmers genuinely enjoy the work. What I've heard from Indians is that many Indian programmers are more interested in building a career than in the work itself. Intrinstic vs. extrinsic motivation. I think this may be declining as a factor as software eats the rest of the US economy and brain drains talented people from other fields, though. * Cultural differences--it turns out that English fluency is necessary but not sufficient to seamlessly slot into an Anglosphere company. * One way out of this conundrum could be for new software companies to start in India and outcompete Western companies (at which point culture differences and time shift wouldn't matter), except I get the sense there are barriers to that.
hnfong 5y ago
I've been thinking the same as I read this discussion. My current best theory is that the software industry is overflowing with money, and it's still more beneficial to try to optimize for output quality and quantity (i.e. hire better software engineers no matter the cost, bring people into the same locality instead of hampering progress by splitting work into different timezones), instead of trying to cut costs to improve profits. Once the growth finally ends, outsourcing to cheaper places might become a very attractive option.