4 ms·

Responding to one illegal action with another illegal action is not exactly praiseworthy in my book.

by synnik 15y ago

lambersley 15y ago
Exactly what would you have done had you come across that situation?
- kiiski 15y ago
  I'd guess nothing, like just about everyone else here.
- synnik 15y ago
  Report the incident to people with authority to act on it. Law Enforcement, his ISP, his data provider... anyone really, who has a legal right to stop the behavior.
  - derleth 15y ago
    And if you have good reason to conclude nobody is going to do anything? (Law enforcement has 'real crimes', the ISP is effectively bought off, nobody else cares.)
  - ceejayoz 15y ago
    In my experience, you've just proposed doing nothing.
3pt14159 15y ago
You Lawful - Good people really need to check out how life is in this Chaotic - Good corner. We're living life to the fullest over here.
- masklinn 15y ago
  > You Lawful - Good people I don't think GP is lawful-good. lawful-neutral as best, potentially lawful-evil. A lawful-good character would not do nothing when facing evil, and would not chide others for acting.
  - synnik 15y ago
    I am not chiding him for acting. I am chiding people for praising his actions.
    - sukuriant 15y ago
      What's the difference?
      - synnik 15y ago
        The difference is the impact it will have on our society. Isolated cases of illegal actions, to support the greater good, do have their place. But praising it to the world is going to play on others' emotions, encouraging them to do the same in the future. It is a slippery slope. People will be doing it for the attention in the future, not for the greater good. And there ARE legal actions that can be taken in these scenarios. The worldwide praise of this act will encourage people to not even look for legal alternatives. Vigilante justice will prevail, and over time that damages the greater good.
        sukuriant 15y ago
        Fair response. I am not sure I buy the "slippery slope" argument, especially with the intensity of the change you suggest at the end, but fair enough.
camiller 15y ago
Sometimes legality and morality don't intersect. This is one of those times. Also, the OP of the reddit article is not a US citizen or resident. Not entirely sure if his actions ARE illegal in his jurisdiction, wherever it is. Edit: In fact one poster on the reddit post pointed out specifically that in France it would be expressly legal.
- CWuestefeld 15y ago
  Thanks for that. Other sibling posts to yours all seem to be taking the position that "the end justifies the means". That's not what's in effect here at all. In this case there's no such corruption, it's purely engaging in a moral action in defense of those being acted upon immorally. This is not an example of utilitarian ethics, with the greatest good for the greatest number, or diverting a runaway streetcar to avoid five people on the tracks, at the cost of striking a single person on the other track.
sjs 15y ago
Your book stinks. Standing by while people are taken advantage of and robbed should not be praiseworthy in anyone's book. > Essentially on discovering I had the power to stop this illegal act without causing any harm, I felt morally obliged to do it. This guy is a real human and a good man. You sound like a robot, legality is black and white and you don't even bring morality into question. His entire comment: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/io76r/i_received_a_scam_paypal_verification_email_this/c25boxw http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/io76r/i_received...
- thaumaturgy 15y ago
  Tangentially: check out Kohlberg's Theory of Moral Development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_de...) -- people start to make more sense once you get your head around the theory (if you decide that it seems valid). So, comments like the grandparent's are just examples of the law-and-order stage of moral development, whereas yours are an example of either the fifth or six stages.
- synnik 15y ago
  When did I ever say anything about standing by?
  - sjs 15y ago
    My sincere apologies, that was a big and incorrect assumption on my part.
- etha 15y ago
  "Not responding with another illegal action" is not the same as "idly standing by."
monochromatic 15y ago
Somebody needs to watch Boondock Saints...
MostAwesomeDude 15y ago
And that's why those of us who are evil-aligned are having fun getting stuff done. Being a paladin is all well and fine, but it keeps you from actually benefiting mankind sometimes. "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality", as JFK said.

Responding to one illegal action with another illegal action is not exactly praiseworthy in my book.

by synnik 15y ago

Responding to one illegal action with another illegal action is not exactly praiseworthy in my book.

lambersley 15y ago

Exactly what would you have done had you come across that situation?

kiiski 15y ago
I'd guess nothing, like just about everyone else here.
synnik 15y ago
Report the incident to people with authority to act on it. Law Enforcement, his ISP, his data provider... anyone really, who has a legal right to stop the behavior.
- derleth 15y ago
  And if you have good reason to conclude nobody is going to do anything? (Law enforcement has 'real crimes', the ISP is effectively bought off, nobody else cares.)
- ceejayoz 15y ago
  In my experience, you've just proposed doing nothing.

3pt14159 15y ago

You Lawful - Good people really need to check out how life is in this Chaotic - Good corner. We're living life to the fullest over here.

masklinn 15y ago
> You Lawful - Good people I don't think GP is lawful-good. lawful-neutral as best, potentially lawful-evil. A lawful-good character would not do nothing when facing evil, and would not chide others for acting.
- synnik 15y ago
  I am not chiding him for acting. I am chiding people for praising his actions.
  - sukuriant 15y ago
    What's the difference?
    - synnik 15y ago
      The difference is the impact it will have on our society. Isolated cases of illegal actions, to support the greater good, do have their place. But praising it to the world is going to play on others' emotions, encouraging them to do the same in the future. It is a slippery slope. People will be doing it for the attention in the future, not for the greater good. And there ARE legal actions that can be taken in these scenarios. The worldwide praise of this act will encourage people to not even look for legal alternatives. Vigilante justice will prevail, and over time that damages the greater good.
      - sukuriant 15y ago
        Fair response. I am not sure I buy the "slippery slope" argument, especially with the intensity of the change you suggest at the end, but fair enough.

camiller 15y ago

Sometimes legality and morality don't intersect. This is one of those times. Also, the OP of the reddit article is not a US citizen or resident. Not entirely sure if his actions ARE illegal in his jurisdiction, wherever it is. Edit: In fact one poster on the reddit post pointed out specifically that in France it would be expressly legal.

CWuestefeld 15y ago
Thanks for that. Other sibling posts to yours all seem to be taking the position that "the end justifies the means". That's not what's in effect here at all. In this case there's no such corruption, it's purely engaging in a moral action in defense of those being acted upon immorally. This is not an example of utilitarian ethics, with the greatest good for the greatest number, or diverting a runaway streetcar to avoid five people on the tracks, at the cost of striking a single person on the other track.

sjs 15y ago

Your book stinks. Standing by while people are taken advantage of and robbed should not be praiseworthy in anyone's book. > Essentially on discovering I had the power to stop this illegal act without causing any harm, I felt morally obliged to do it. This guy is a real human and a good man. You sound like a robot, legality is black and white and you don't even bring morality into question. His entire comment: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/io76r/i_received_a_scam_paypal_verification_email_this/c25boxw http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/io76r/i_received...

thaumaturgy 15y ago
Tangentially: check out Kohlberg's Theory of Moral Development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_de...) -- people start to make more sense once you get your head around the theory (if you decide that it seems valid). So, comments like the grandparent's are just examples of the law-and-order stage of moral development, whereas yours are an example of either the fifth or six stages.
synnik 15y ago
When did I ever say anything about standing by?
- sjs 15y ago
  My sincere apologies, that was a big and incorrect assumption on my part.
etha 15y ago
"Not responding with another illegal action" is not the same as "idly standing by."

monochromatic 15y ago

Somebody needs to watch Boondock Saints...

MostAwesomeDude 15y ago

And that's why those of us who are evil-aligned are having fun getting stuff done. Being a paladin is all well and fine, but it keeps you from actually benefiting mankind sometimes. "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality", as JFK said.